Information What Experience Rates You Prefer?

[Lharts]

And yet you said nothing new. This discussion and its arguments are just repeating all the time.
1x -> true blizzlike
2x -> attracts more players

blah

2x also attracts players that most of us try to get away from. Ups and downs.
A bit faster would be fine for me, but I wouldn't go anywhere near 3x.

 

[Jahreno]

I voted for 1x leveling, regardless of default rate i will play on 1x(if it can be modified) and play through all the zones i love to level in. I dont want to outlevel the zones, and enjoy the adventure. Thats the way this game is meant to be played.

I dont think 1x fanatics are being selfish. Its just that we love this game, and want it to be as pure as possible. But i have seen many good servers fail due to low population problems. Some people argue with pretty good points about 2x, which would still take a considerable amount of time. As long as its withing acceptable limits, i am fine with a higher xp rate. This is an old game with small playerbase, no point of infighting over stupid reasons, everyone is here for fun and as long as its not abusable i am fine with small changes to gameplay.

That is to say, leveling shouldnt take any less than 4-5 days /played on average. Anything less would depopulate a lot of zones. I dont like the idea of playing in a server where all zones feel dead.

1.5x-2x optional rate leveling OR
2x rates in Dungeons OR
1x on 1-30 and 2x on 31-60(this is the best imo)

These seem like good suggestions, and as long as they're optional(that you can disable), i am fine with them.
BTW, 1x levelers in warsong(waaaaaaay before ed got released) used to get high rates if they grouped up with a 12 leveler(yea lol even their optional sht is bugged). I trust we wont have such problems:3

 

[Voltaire]

I guess this will have to be one of those "agree to disagree" situations.

I will not believe that it is impossible for Kronos to reach a healthy population with x1 IF it ends up being what it claims it will be. If not and the server is (obviously)flawed then I THINK that most of the 1x rate lovers that like me are coming from the "outside" of the private server community would be disappointed and might be deterred from the server regardless of the XP rates.

So in the end I it will all depend on whether Kronos delivers or not.
Thats all im saying.

There has only been one 1x vanilla WoW server that has ever picked up and it was Emerald Dream, Feenix. You know how they did it? They were already the most successful private server project. They had 3,7k (at that peak time) players logged in at the same time on Warsong every single evening (server literally full, couldn't even handle to raise the cap.) and Al'akir still had an active player base of 500 people. They were already the most famous vanilla WoW project, you hardly met any vanilla private server player, who hadn't been playing on one of their private servers. They advertised ED massively and they used their sheer fame, influence & power. In fact 1/3 of ED's population came from Warsong itself because people were looking for a fresh start just as they're looking for now. And thanks to all of that combined ED managed to grow to ~1,5k players, which is just enough to take on a sustainable life of it's own and slowly keep growing. They would still probably be growing if the staff wouldn't have shot themselves in the leg.

All other militant 1x vanilla servers have been stuck at 200-500 active players and stopped growing, some have been stuck at those numbers for years, others started declining and died. Even on these forums more than half of the players admit that they are coming from a Feenix server. We need to appeal to some of the Feenix project players if we wish to grow past the 1k marker - simple as that. Even Rebirth only started growing after people started quitting Feenix and changing server just out of hate and spite, to send them a message "Aha! See fuckers, I betrayed you, feeding your competition!" (That's what ~100 people have admitted on different forums lol.) Rebirth was stagnating and stuck at 300 players for over a year. Now they caught ~300 daily players from Feenix (grew from 300 to 700 in a few months). Feenix kept DDoSing and now Rebirth is pretty much dead aswell. Valkyrie has ~400 players online a day, they only stay alive thanks to their extremely loyal russian playerbase, who wouldn't migrate anyway.

Majority of the players (up to ~a thousand), who populated Qgaming and Scriptcraft (multi rate projects) at their respectable launches came from Feenix and they also went back to Feenix after those projects failed.

Point is that we need to lure in at least a small portion of Warsong players aswell, there hasn't been a better time to do that than it is now. Around 400-700 (I'm being modest) potential daily active players (+ those, who already stopped playing Warsong and are waiting for a new 2-12x project)

A large pool of players, just waiting to be appealed to. This shouldn't go unnoticed.

And yet you said nothing new. This discussion and its arguments are just repeating all the time.
1x -> true blizzlike
2x -> attracts more players

blah

2x also attracts players that most of us try to get away from. Ups and downs.
A bit faster would be fine for me, but I wouldn't go anywhere near 3x.

Population will end up making or breaking the server.

I'd rephrase you:

1x -> ~300-600 active players with the risk of stagnating and staying like this or even slowly dying
2x -> ~1000-1500 active players (after the ~1k mark it starts growing faster on it's own)


Nah, all the unbearable players would never come here with a 2x rate. They prefer 5x+ rate. So, 2x would be enough to lure in the dedicated bunch, who knows how to behave. And keep the ****ts at bay.

I'm certain that most of us can agree that the population growth is extremely important. This server must have the best possible chance of growing as fast as possible, so it would actually feel like an MMORPG. No point in becoming another stagnant server with a dedicated ~200-400 player population (Like majority of the projects.)

I voted for 1x leveling, regardless of default rate i will play on 1x(if it can be modified) and play through all the zones i love to level in. I dont want to outlevel the zones, and enjoy the adventure. Thats the way this game is meant to be played.

I dont think 1x fanatics are being selfish. Its just that we love this game, and want it to be as pure as possible. But i have seen many good servers fail due to low population problems. Some people argue with pretty good points about 2x, which would still take a considerable amount of time. As long as its withing acceptable limits, i am fine with a higher xp rate. This is an old game with small playerbase, no point of infighting over stupid reasons, everyone is here for fun and as long as its not abusable i am fine with small changes to gameplay.

That is to say, leveling shouldnt take any less than 4-5 days /played on average. Anything less would depopulate a lot of zones. I dont like the idea of playing in a server where all zones feel dead.

1.5x-2x optional rate leveling OR
2x rates in Dungeons OR
1x on 1-30 and 2x on 31-60(this is the best imo)

These seem like good suggestions, and as long as they're optional(that you can disable), i am fine with them.
BTW, 1x levelers in warsong(waaaaaaay before ed got released) used to get high rates if they grouped up with a 12 leveler(yea lol even their optional sht is bugged). I trust we wont have such ****cy :3

I understand your point of view and I respect it. I agree with many things you pointed out. "1x on 1-30 and 2x on 31-60" system wouldn't work, because that would force the 1x supporters to play with higher rates and we don't want that. let them savor the game in their desired way. Should leave them a choice. That's why it must be optional, to fit everyone's needs. Also it wouldn't be much of a compromise for the 2x supporters. Increasing only dungeon experience would just force 50% of the player base into dungeons, never to see sunlight until level 60, and it still wouldn't lure in as many people as adding a flat out option to raise the experience to 2x would.

 

[Jahreno]

I merely pointed out the most popular and acceptable suggestions already given in forums. indeed some people would farm dungeons to level, but it would get boring after a while and its inefficient for leveling speed or loots. Its not TBC dungeon leveling where you level fast and get overgeared for your level. Merely an attraction to people who needs a little boost and cba to level in 1x. Also encouraging the players to clear lower level content more often.

as for the option i marked as best, ofc i dont want 1x players to be forced to 2x. how about adding a command in game that can only be used after hitting lvl 30? Or an option you enable/disable in the website? I am sure there are quite a lot of ways to make this possible.

 

[Fajaf]

1x
That's good setting, becouse when you get higher rates you will also get less gold and items while leveling, which makes it difficult.

 

[Lharts]

You claim that higher rates will also attract more players.
-> You can't possibly know that, neither can anyone else. You assume it.

Btw, this thread is not meant for discussions.
Vote, post your statement why you voted this way, done.

 

[Voltaire]

You claim that higher rates will also attract more players.
-> You can't possibly know that, neither can anyone else. You assume it.

Btw, this thread is not meant for discussions.
Vote, post your statement why you voted this way, done.

Ohh, but I can. I've got data. You could dig up data aswell, already mentioned how to do it in a previous post. We can create a realistic prognosis by analyzing the data we possess and the information we know. We could even go as far as creating charts and statistics (but I won't, seems like a hassle to spend hours on that to prove myself on a unknown private server fan forum of a 10 year old game) based on how things have happened at different points in the past and taking all the necassary factors into account we can use this data to predict how things and events manifest in the future with, if done right, up to a ~90% accuracy (depending on how deep we go.) It's a very straight forward, logical process. It's conducted and carried out in all fields and sections of life on a daily basis all around us.

I've already spent far too much time on these forums. I've pointed out all important information and I've explained everything in great detail. ~6 pages of discussion, filled with huge, extremely detailed posts. I've said everything that I had to say. I'll stop now. I've been debating reoccuring arguments over and over anyway. I think I've got my message through to the those, who have been closely following.

Has been very interesting, I'm sorry if I made anybody feel uncomfortable. I thank everybody for their time and attention.

With love,

Voltaire

 

[Ghostly]

THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION THREAD - ALL DISCUSSION WILL BE REMOVED

Guess this kinda didn't work out))))

 

[Voltaire]

Guess this kinda didn't work out))))

This was the only place, where people would actually notice - was worth a shot

 

[goris]

Don't you worry, the staff knows where the delete button is. Let's not make "this opinion is posted in the wrong thread" a valid counter-argument, that would be really sad.

 

[cento]

i think that 2x in dungeons would be the best compromise they could make ...

 

[dragonbane]

I believe that this "informational discussion" will stay here at least until the server launches. We have a great debate here for the developers covered, where they might haven't gone into such of a level as we did.
Good luck.

 

[Mandfred]

I thought I was done with this thread but I just have to say one last thing.

You can't claim anything to be a indisputable fact without providing any factual evidence. Saying that you yourself have done the research and that we should just take you on your word doesn't work on the internet. You can't claim a fact an say that it stands as such until it have been disproved, as the burden of evidence always lies on the claimant.

So what you have is a claim that things are as you say, but it have yet to be proven as a fact. And yes this is just a forum for a minor vanilla server and you probably don't want to waste the time to back it up with evidence but that doesn't make it any more of a fact.

 

[cento]

I thought I was done with this thread but I just have to say one last thing.

You can't claim anything to be a indisputable fact without providing any factual evidence. Saying that you yourself have done the research and that we should just take you on your word doesn't work on the internet. You can't claim a fact an say that it stands as such until it have been disproved, as the burden of evidence always lies on the claimant.

So what you have is a claim that things are as you say, but it have yet to be proven as a fact. And yes this is just a forum for a minor vanilla server and you probably don't want to waste the time to back it up with evidence but that doesn't make it any more of a fact.

+1
And every single post being a wall of text of gibberish dont help much either.

 

[Voltaire]

I thought I was done with this thread but I just have to say one last thing.

You can't claim anything to be a indisputable fact without providing any factual evidence. Saying that you yourself have done the research and that we should just take you on your word doesn't work on the internet. You can't claim a fact an say that it stands as such until it have been disproved, as the burden of evidence always lies on the claimant.

So what you have is a claim that things are as you say, but it have yet to be proven as a fact. And yes this is just a forum for a minor vanilla server and you probably don't want to waste the time to back it up with evidence but that doesn't make it any more of a fact.

I thought I was done with this thread aswell. Ok, I'll play along and I'll take the liberty of countering your argument for one last time again. I don't even have to waste hours on creating piecharts and diagrams or statistics to lay the hard facts on the table.

Let's take a look at all the servers worth pointing out. let the numbers speak for themselves. I used these two most popular top100 voting lists:
1) http://topg.org/World-Of-Warcraft/version/Vanilla-Classic
2) http://www.xtremetop100.com/world-of-warcraft

...to help me pick out any server, which has more than 100 players logged in together at the same time on them (spent some time on this.) During the last 4-5 years these are all the servers worth noting:

1x rate realms:

Emerald Dream - Peaked once upon a time at ~1800 players. Now down to ~1100 players logged in at the same time on a daily basis. And let us not forget that this server is an exception because of the Feenix fanboys & fame Feenix has amongst the vanilla servers. This is your golden child, every 1x fanboy uses this server as an example, but as mentioned in previous posts and this one, many other factors come into play with this exception.

Rebirth - Averaged at 300-400 (as of june, just before the DDoS) players logged in at the same time on a daily basis. (And it only started to grow when Feenix players started leaving for it in droves.) Now this project is pretty much already dead because of DDoS and incompetence in management. Servers have been unplayable for ~4+ months.

Valkyrie - Peaks at ~450 players being logged on at the same time on a daily basis.Their website officially shows ~150 players as being logged on right now. The server has merged twice with other servers to stay alive and it's still stagnating. First merge was with "Archaica", 2nd unsuccessful merge was with "Scriptcraft2", but they left because of the nature of the server.) They only thrive on their loyal russian community, who are not interested in moving anywhere. The remnants of their US commununity, which migrated with the merge are desparetely looking for a new multirate server, but they are stuck and quiting one after another.

TaintedWoW - Peaked at ~200 players being logged on at the same time. Died because of poor management & lack of interest.


2-12x rate realms:

Warsong - Peaked at 3600 players being logged in at the same time every raiding evening. Now peaks at ~2700 players logged on at the same time. Server is old & buggy, with nothing left to look forward to, managed by an abusive & careless team people desire to escape to a fresh 2-12x rate server.

VanillaGaming - Peaked at 768 players being logged on at the same time (says so on the front page of their website.)

Al' Akir (instant 60, but players still more likely to prefer 2x rates+) - Peaked at ~600 players being logged on at the same time (down to ~200-300 players now due to poor management.)

StormrageProject - Peaks at ~100 players. Server is unknown and lacked advertisement. They also lack a staff team.

Q-gaming 1st launch - Peaked at 1200 players. Died because of DDoS & hacking.

Q-gaming 2nd launch - Peaked at 750 players. Died once again because of DDoS & hacking.

Scriptcraft 1st launch - Peaked at ~2700 players. Died because of administration problems

Scriptcraft 2nd launch - Peaked at ~1700 players. Was re-launched because the loyal community gathered enough money through donations and demanded that the admin, "Gummy", released another project, but the money ran out and the server was shut down again after 6 months because they ran out of funds and frankly Gummy's priorities lied elsewhere.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I left out all the ghost realms with below a hundred people online at any given time.

These are all the servers worth noting and I scanned through more than a hundred popular ones (even if they were not on a list then we surely would had heard of them if they were even a bit popular/populated.)

Sources can be double checked & verified through the fansites, forums and wikipages of these respectable servers. Also many people on these forums have played on these servers and know I'm not exaggerating. Now let's add that there hasn't been a single fresh (alive) multirate server, with proper advertisement, which was ran by a dedicated staff team, released in ~3+ years. There is a great demand for one now. People are restless for a fresh start, a reset button for the endgame content, but they are discouraged by 1x experience rate. Entire endgame guilds are looking for a new place to start calling "home".

At the same time 1x servers have been released pretty much once every year within this same time period and none of them picked up, demand was low, still is compared to a demand for a 2x+ rate server. (It's ridiculous to say that a few dozen loud fanboys can be considered a demand.) All these 1x rate projects, which perished were backed up and supported by these very same small hardcore 1x rate fan bunches such as you are here. I'm pretty sure many of you were even part of those exact same communities before they went six feet under.

For now the saying: "All roads lead to Rome" could be rephrased as "All roads lead to Feenix."

A compromise is wise for the success of this server in the long run. This compromise would end up increasing the success rate of this project by at least 2-3 times (if not more.) I'm vigilant on this because all the signs are pointing everything going in the same direction as it's always gone. I myself personally desire a 4x rate, so I'm not fighting for my own selfish desire. You would not be robbed of your chance to relive your experience the way you desire to, it would only open a door for countless others to relive this special experience as they desire to. The server will profit, staff will be happy, 1x fanboy minority will get to play their way and they'll notice that there's actually PvP & UBRS up all the time, people are having fun and the world feels alive - which, if the word gets around in return pulls in even more players. And in the end it will all have been worth it. This compromise is tilted a lot more in your minority favor anyway than it's tilted for the optional 2x rate supporters. It's not about You or me and our personal selfish desires, don't you get it?

Whils't I'm sure the Kronos' team wants to bring about an "authentic true blizzlike" experience, let us not forget it's only a slogan, a slogan to create interest, but this interest pulls in only a minority of the potential playerbase. This slogan has been shouted out time and time again by every single vanilla private server project since the release of MANGOS (experienced players compare it to a politician screaming "CHANGE! I'LL LOWER TAXES! Swear on me mums lyfe m8" And even if they hold up to it the MAJORITY of people are in it for the endgame content anyway. And I doubt Twinstars invested thousands upon thousands of dollars into hardware and several months of hard work into this project just to see it become another stagnant realm as EVERY.SINGLE.ONE that has launched before them. They're not a charity.

+1
And every single post being a wall of text of gibberish dont help much either.

It's not gibberish. You force me to go into detail, so I do in hopes of breaking every single bit down to you, like feeding a toddler, to make you understand and stop posting these same arguments over and over and stop overlooking my answers. Besides, if you don't have an argument you couldn't defend down to smallest bit of detail then you don't really have an argument at all.

 

[jorim]

I must admit that Voltaire makes very valid points. I also have to admit that I once was a feenix fanboy myself. It is all about the population, and most people think that it equals to quality. I didn't really knew about other projects unless guild members mentioned them, and didn't really care for them because they didn't provide me the same level of security since they often didn't last long.


Allthough voltaires observations are correct, i feel that the Kronos project has different variables. It has been around for a while, and it didn't relaunch because of ddos or management problems. It has experience in running servers of other expansions. It provides more security. It seems more promising and gathering more hype than any project has before afaik. It also comes at a time where feenix is in a downward spiral. What will come of it can not be predicted correctly. But still limiting the rates is a handicap. The higher rates will always get higher populations.


So yea i agree an optional higher rate would be a good thing, because i personally would take very long to get to 60 x1 because my playtime is limited. And most people are only interested in the endgame.

 

[Lharts]

Voltaire, almost all the number you provided are wrong.

 

[Asmodeus]

Rebirth - Averaged at 300-400 (as of june, just before the DDoS) players logged in at the same time on a daily basis. (And it only started to grow when Feenix players started leaving for it in droves.) Now this project is pretty much already dead because of DDoS and incompetence in management. Servers have been unplayable for ~4+ months.

Rebirth was at around 750 players online at the same time pre ddos. The server only became unplayable when it actually went offline around the beginning of October.

Voltaire, I think you fail to understand that this isn't just about population. They want to make a classic blizzlike server, that's it. They aren't trying to make a server that will please the entire private server community, just those that want to play classic blizzlike. Anything above x1 exp rates is viewed by most as a "play around" server that is not designed to feel like how live WoW was, but rather a custom experience. I would be willing to bet a lot of the players on those crazy high xp rate servers or instant max level still play live and just mess around on private servers for fun.

This is a classic, blizzlike project that is attempting to emulate the vanilla experience, and that is it. Changing the xp rates deviates from that emulation and defeats the entire purpose of the project. That classic retail feeling can still be achieved with an active player base of 600-800, although the higher the pop the better (in most cases). I wouldn't sacrifice the integrity of the project however for those who don't appreciate the classic experience.

 

[Tormenting]

Voltaire the master of gibberish and made up facts

 

[cento]

This is a classic, blizzlike project that is attempting to emulate the vanilla experience, and that is it. Changing the xp rates deviates from that emulation and defeats the entire purpose of the project.

That is what a lot of us have been trying to say all the time.

But a lot of people are just too focused on rush,rush and rush leveling and thinking that it will bring more/new players who probably won't even stay in the long run.

 

[Shadowlurk]

The other options are a joke.

Has to be 1x for it to be a real blizzlike Vanilla server.

 

[goris]

...defeats the entire purpose of the project.

This here kills your whole post for me. How can you possiby know what the purpose of a project you're not involved in is? Everybody is entitled to his opinion, of course, but please, stop pretending that your opinion is the staff's opinion, when you can't possibly back it up.

 

[Asmodeus]

This here kills your whole post for me. How can you possiby know what the purpose of a project you're not involved in is? Everybody is entitled to his opinion, of course, but please, stop pretending that your opinion is the staff's opinion, when you can't possibly back it up.

Considering the fact that they are developing a classic blizzlike WoW server I'm going to go ahead and say that it's safe to assume they are aiming for a classic blizzlike WoW experience. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, but I think we can both agree that I'm not. :biggrin:

 

[goris]

No, I will agree that they want a bugless, well populated vanilla server. The 1x xp rates have never seemed as an important set-in-stone quality of the server. Sadly, I can't remeber the first Kronos' rates, but I'd bet a whole lot that they were optional, if not from the very start then very soon after it and they were definitely optional on the second one. I wouldn't want to speak for the staff, but I think that every staff of every server would rather have population than some feeling. Or at least any serious server trying to be the best, or trying to earn money. Because, let's be honest, that is how you measure success in this world.

There's also a huge difference in people's definitions of the word blizzlike, which you like to use and of what it applies to. For some, the bugfest and custom HP/dmg-fest that is Fenix(so I've heard) is considered blizzlike, just because their xp rates are same as blizz had in 1.12. Never mind the funcionality, just look at one number which won't even matter for the most part of your character's "life".
For others, blizzlike is having a server that functions just like blizzard servers or as close to that as possible. Granted, that does include levelling rates, but it is a way larger term than that. And deviating from it a little bit, in order to attract more players, isn't neccessarily considered as not being blizzlike by those people, because the main qualities that earned you that title are still present and untouched.


Edit: I forgot to add that I'm not advocating for any specific rates. Maybe 1x will scare off some players, maybe 1x-2x will scare off more or less people. I haven't done the research and I don't have any cold hard facts/statistics. I don't know what rates would bring the most people and I'm not the least bit affraid to admit it.

 

[Mobiu5]

I don't see what the big deal is about 2x rates. Vanilla was awesome which is why I'm here. But it WAS a bit too grindy. Now before you start angrily typing, I'm not referring to the amount of time it took to get to 60. I'm talking about that "grindy" feel.

You know, when you've been in the same small area for hours and you start getting that mind numbing sensation of complete boredom because you've been performing the same repetitive action a thousand times and you know you need to do it a thousand more before you can get some fresh scenery? That.

That feeling is not laziness. It is genuine, mind-numbing boredom. 2x rates are enough to take the edge off without breaking the experience. Think of it as always having rested xp (maybe get rid of rested xp for people who've chosen 2x rates so nobody ever has 4x normal rates). Doesn't sound like such a big deal to me.

edit: Well, not exactly like rested but still... NOT a big deal. If it's well scripted, the experience will be just as great and you'll forget why you made such a fuss over optional 2x experience rates when you're having so much fun on a lively classic server that is bustling with activity