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    TwinStar team

Leveling rates - but not really

Schaka

Authorized
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Hey community,

some of you possibly know me from other servers, some might not know me or my name at all. But let me start this thread by saying I'm mostly burnt out when it comes to vanilla and I will NOT play on Kronos. So take my opinion with a grain of salt. The sole reason I am even posting this is because I want to see Feenix go DOWN and I want the private server community overall to change very much to where a higher standard of quality is required by players instead of just accepting the status quo, no matter how bugged it may be, in favor of a big community.
Why not have both, right?

I see this as something that might actually be possible with Kronos (and previously I thought Valkyrie could do it, but nevermind with them still being essentially Rusian). However, the reason Valkyrie failed is not only that but also staying so strong on x1 rates. The could never get more English speaking players to join the fun at x1, because more people at 60 got burnt out (of not having enough people to raid with and just afking) than new players came in in a consierable amount of time. So after each hype (like 3 or maybe even 4 times) it slowly died off again. People also got burnt out of leveling to 60 at x1 alone (due to overall small [English] population). I understand that Kronos will try to prevent this by forcing everyone to speak English, but can't we all agree that this is a vicious cycle? If you're stuck at 100 players once (or even 300) and not enough new people are joining to replace the old ones, you cannot keep a server alive AND the new players will have nobody but themselves to level with, which makes the vanilla grind booooring as hell (and it IS a grind).

So what if you could combine both, a constant influx of new players and a shorter grind? I think nobody here actually wants x7 (or even x4 and x5) again, but what about x2 and x3? From what I've seen in the vote, the people who were okay with these rates were roughly on par with the people who wanted x1. And anything higher really isn't that good, because you still want players to invest time in their characters so they won't leave the server. Don't stop reading here, the important part is below.

Then how about a custom voting item that lasts for a couple of hours. This way most of your players will vote constantly and you will be on top of the voting sites and at the same time, you will keep the server active by getting new people on board who actually fill up the lowlevel areas.
These items would work the following: You can vote every 12 hours, this would earn you enough points to buy 1 of 2 different items that you can use ingame. The first item lasts 8 hours and gives you x2 xp, after that, if you want to level hardcore 24/7, you will have to continue at x1. This server isn't supposed to give you anything for free after all.
The other item is supposed to appeal to casuals more, it will give you x3 xp for 4 hours, because you are unable to play 8 hours that very day, for example. However, this particular item overall does not reward as much experience as the other one does, just more of a much shorter amount of time. This way, it is essentially not as good. These items would also REALLY make people roll alts more, because you could gather voting points for alts and then level them at x3 constantly after saving up for a month.

Of course these numbers aren't final and just suggestions (as is the whole thing, obviously) and there is no need to implement it in a way that allows saving up for alts at all. But I think the whole thing is worth considering, if you really want to surpass Feenix (in quality, you surely already have done so).
 
I would just start concidering a higher xp rates or some kind of a workaround to archive them, after 6 months when the initial rush has gone.. Before i would really try to build this whole project as a reasonable 1x rate server, before even thinking about raising the rates no matter in what way.
 
although id much rather prefer that Kronos stays pure 1x i wouldnt really mind xp buff's especially since blizzard started doing so whenever they got the chance, just take a look at monk's or xp potion or purchaseable level boost. as long as you cannot just purchase a level but still gotta invest time into playing i wont mind if some get a boost in xp for having voted for a couple days.

x2 or x3 aren't that much but if for that they can get vote's then i think its a decent idea, however i would suggest that you get 1 vote point for voting on all sites. the buff shouldn't increase quest xp since then you can just stack up before using it and the base duration should start at 1-2 hour's similar to blizzards retail buffs.

you can then purchase/upgrade the buff item, 3x votes is the absolut minimum which grants 1.5x and you can go all the way up to 10x for 20 point's. Or you can choose to for 4 vote points gain 2x rate and then spend points in duration instead.

note: ofc. the buff persists through death and voting on holidays grants bonus points.
 
http://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread.php/86588-What-Experience-Rates-You-Prefer/page3

Brothir made a really good suggestion in this thread.
The main reason people are defending 1x is because of grouping and social interaction.
Having a higher EP rate in dungeons, like a permanent rested, would encourage players to run the low level content more frequently.
To prevent them from just running instances and leaving the level zones deserted or getting help from higher level players there must be some rules ofc. Like not getting rested for more then 2 levels / day for dungeons and not receiving the bonus if a player is in the party that doesn't get experience anymore. w/e

Groups get EP bonus at some point (think with 3 players you get mobEP/3*1.166 or something), you could also higher that for example.
Like instead of the usual:
2: 1 -> 1.166
3: 1.166 -> 1.3
4: 1.3 -> 1.6
5: 1.4 -> 1.8
There sure are some solutions that work for both sides.
 
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For me, this idea is great, but i'm not sure that it is possible to do in vanilla wow.
 
I do totally agree, if it is possible to make 2x exp in dungeons it would be awesome solution.
 
This is a gamble, you can't really know how Kronos is going to take shape and the best way imho is to choose normal rates at the beginning and, in the worst case scenario, changing it if it is too problematic.

I go on the principle that we all know what an MMO is and the huge amount of time required by that kind of game, mostly when it came to Vanilla WoW and its obligatory Hardcore phase to go through compared to the actual WoW where you have more choice in terms of difficulty.

I assume one of the most interesting things is playing among high levels and exploring the endgame content but would you feel any pleasure if it was too easy ? Wouldn't you see a problem if you had enough time to farm the endgame and not the Leveling ? Wouldn't you feel like a Mist of Pandaria player born with a silver spoon in his mouth ?

- Level 60 is more or less 200h.
- Farming your primary/secondary jobs, epic riding skill, mount and gear is easily twice more.

The sacrifice is minimal. To be honest, if you are only interested in one thing about Vanilla, then I guess you could find a better MMO game somewhere else even more adapted since nowadays most of online games are designed for Casuals.
 
Well mostly its about having a mature discussion on the topic and not just sticking to your own shallow opinion.
 
Too bad that I can't express myself as I would in this language but ty anyway for your shallow comment.

:winkiss:
 
I recall on a Trinity Core server having a group experience bonus, players quickly learned that it worked regardless of which zones the party members were in, and it got taken advantage of in a hurry. Everyone dual boxed or triple boxed with level 1 alts cluttering up both faction's starting zones.

The devs hit some snags in adjusting it so that only party members within a certain range would trigger the exp bonus, so it was taken out of the game entirely.

In short, I'd hate to see any kind of Exp bonus mechanic that is exploited by players in a way that isn't a part of classic WoW.
 
No one will die if spend 5-6 weeks to level a character on the server. So I don't see the whole fuss here. Aren't you going to play more than 6 months here? If you want to play for a month don't even start is my advice. Everyone lets play as it should be and have been in the old days.
 
I think what some of you don't realize, is that many of us x1 players are not necessarily in this for the end-game.

Pretty much anything above 1x XP could easily have a much greater influence on my time playing here, than completely flawless scripting. Even though I would definitely prefer x2 in dungeons only over a fixed global XP increase, it would still make me seriously consider starting here in the first place.

This game was originally balanced with a specific flow between zones, quests and dungeons. As soon as you notably deviate from this, you will also deviate (IMO) at least as much from a blizz-like server than one with only sub-par dungeon scripting. I don't want to suddenly have outleveled Shadowfang Keep because I also wanted to do all my quest lines in Duskwood first. And yes, even 1,5 is going to seriously mess up your leveling in the long run.


I was looking for the best blizz-like vanilla server, I came across Kronos, and they promised to become exactly this.

That is why I think they should stick to majority's wishes here and settle for the x1 already. It's not like the debate will ever end anyway.


And yes, I also agree that modifiable XP-rates is probably the worst solution overall. Give everyone the same fixed rate nomatter what.
 
This isn't about what YOU want for yourself. Your selfishness isn't helping anybody, least of all yourself. The sole reason (did you read the OP?) for this thread is for the good of the server. I said myself AT THE VERY BEGINNING that I do not have the time to play here but I want to see the server succeed as a whole.

And let's face it, the game is about the endgame. Sure leveling is part of vanilla and it's a bigger part than in later expansions, but how big a part is it really and how much of it should be allowed to be skipped to make the server more attractive? You need maybe 10 days /played to hit 60 (if you're casually leveling and doing your professions on the way). Then the other 40 days of your /played time will be spent on the endgame. That's a pretty clear 20% part, so why not cut it by 5 or maybe 10%? Overall it won't have much of an impact on the game, but it gives players an initiative to VOTE for the server (because inevitably, it WILL need new players in masses) and gives new players a small initiative to start because they won't spend ages on the grind when all they want to do is work on their character.

Why do you think highrate servers are (in terms of player numbers) so much more successful than x1 servers? For TBC, even Hellground and Excalibur have x2, which is not much more, but enough to motivate players.

Why do you think Feenix could make a x1 server succeed? It's because they already had 2500 players on their other servers and they knew they could guarantee an influx of new players by fame, despite the server being shit. Unless Kronos can pretty much guarantee the same thing, I don't see how it will be happening at all.

In the very beginning you won't notice, but a little later on you will. There will be 1, maybe 2 guilds on each faction that raid in different timezones and they will have to keep running 20s or 25 man MC, or pugging MC because essentially they do not get enough new players coming in. Now you're expecting them to keep their players motivated after they just invested 15 days /played to get to 60 and farm pre-raid BiS but can't actually use the gear while waiting for 15, maybe 20 new people to JOIN THE SERVER, level to 60, farm pre-raid BiS and join the raids. Good luck trying to keep people interested for that long. I've seen this scenario over and over happening on different, smaller servers. Are you going to deny that Kronos died like that before?

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" and all that.
If you think new players taking a long time to hit 60 (and very few new players joining) will not affect the server's overall climate, you are nothing short of ignorant.
 
Schaka, u need to understand that, economy will be so fked up @ 5x+~ rates, cuz noone here gonna increase drop rate. There will be huge struggle for all of us, cuz of a lack of skills etc. 1x gonna make some stability of your economy, other than that, whole vanilla feeling, good scripting, will be a total waste, cuz all u gonna do, will be - MASSIVE GOLD farming...
 
Too bad that I can't express myself as I would in this language but ty anyway for your shallow comment.

:winkiss:

Didn't mean you :) was a general statement


10 days played would mean that you are extremely slow. You spend most of your ingame time on the max level and this is where the game actually starts and where almost all of your memories are.
 
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Schaka, u need to understand that, economy will be so fked up

big population is better than good economy imo. NOONE knows what the starting population will be though, so its hard to predict what might cause the server to fall. I think important things like this, need to be discussed when the server has a bigger attention, like few weeks before the launch.
And then if you get 1k votes for 1x rates, then sure. Right now the sample is too small
 
Don't get me wrong. I support 1x rates, but if EP rates is the only thing you are concerned of then I do not know why you don't just play on any other 1x rate server.

Personally I can live with any EP rate. I will play here for the quality of game mechanics and scripts and nothing else.
 
Schaka, u need to understand that, economy will be so fked up @ 5x+~ rates, cuz noone here gonna increase drop rate. There will be huge struggle for all of us, cuz of a lack of skills etc. 1x gonna make some stability of your economy, other than that, whole vanilla feeling, good scripting, will be a total waste, cuz all u gonna do, will be - MASSIVE GOLD farming...
Did you read my post AT ALL? I mean.. did you read anything, at all?
I said, give players x2 rates for 8 hours through an item, which they can get by voting every 12 hours.
I said nothing of x5 rates (except that they're too high).

I also said that high rates will lead to characters nobody cares about. Which is precisely why I made this thread to suggest a solution that highly benefits the server as a whole without making the x1 tryhards cry too much (especially because it's still optional to them.

Also I meant to mention earlier that there definitely aren't enough quests, unless you only log in once every 3 days and have rested XP a lot of the time. Vanilla means grinding a lot. In the very low levels, you can switch between zones every 2 levels to do every quest you can possibly catch at the perfect level (when it's yellow) and it will work out. But in the 30s and 40s, that stops working out so well and you will have to grind.

I've been in the private server community long enough to have seen a bunch of failing projects despite being quality wise far superior to their competition. Having some unique systems is also always important (imo). Doing something nobody else has attempted before or just having features the competition cannot offer is what drives a server ahead.
When Kisha and I founded AT back in 2009, that's exactly what we did. A lot of other servers were more bugfree, but they had no special concept, no superior understanding of the game.

I think that Kronos has this part down. But it isn't all that's necessary to keep a population. Some people here might hate me for bringing up Scriptcraft, but in my opinion (and Gummy said so too, although he said he was unhappy with it later) the reason the server was big is simply because he had more new people coming in than old ones leaving. And that's partially due to the hype, but also partially due to the instant 49 (which I think sucks ass) concept. The biggest advantage of it was that virtually everyone started out at a certain level and the whole server's population was spread out over a handful of zones, making it look extreeeeemly active. It was a smart move, whether he intended it or not.

If Kronos can come up with a system (or several) that are unique and will help keeping the server afloat (both by inviting new players and keeping old ones) then it will be on the road to success. Unfortunately, I think just fixing "everything" isn't going to do the trick. I know this sounds stupid, because the people who are here RIGHT NOW obviously value quality over quantity (and as do I), but the fact is, statistically speaking, that the majority of players just don't care. Look at Feenix, Molten, WoWCircle. They're all utter trash servers, yet they house insanely big populations. Why? Because people clearly don't give a shit about how broken the game is, as long as there are enough other players to have fun in it.
 
The biggest advantage of it was that virtually everyone started out at a certain level and the whole server's population was spread out over a handful of zones, making it look extreeeeemly active. It was a smart move, whether he intended it or not.

Nice catch.. last part is true aswell.

A pointless disagreement - You can get 60 without grind though, you just need to travel and not skip any quests even if you hate them.
 
No one will die if spend 5-6 weeks to level a character on the server. So I don't see the whole fuss here. Aren't you going to play more than 6 months here? If you want to play for a month don't even start is my advice. Everyone lets play as it should be and have been in the old days.

5-6 weeks, wtf man? that would mean you play around 6 hours a day. most people have job, studies or other things and wont play anywhere near that much. for me personally it would take 4-6 months to get to 60 on 1x.
 
5-6 weeks, wtf man? that would mean you play around 6 hours a day. most people have job, studies or other things and wont play anywhere near that much. for me personally it would take 4-6 months to get to 60 on 1x.

...Exaggerating much ?... even if you only played during the weekends it wouldnt take half a year to get to lvl 60?... do you only play 2-3 times a month ?... and if you dislike leveling that much i cannot see why you would play 1.12.1 at all then...

and yes most have studies or a job but even then leveling from 1-60 takes 2-8 week's and 12 at most if you keep playing and don't take a break. you can even use leveling guides to speedup the leveling progress and time.

and while in a capital or inn you store rested xp so you can lvl at 2x rate for up to 1½ levels.
 
Got work and other hobbies too and I estimate my journey to 60 to be about 2 months with 3 night/weeks à 6-8h.
Which would put me at (6-8) / 2 * 9weeks * 3 = ~190h /played.

Thats about 7-8 days (18.5h / week).
 
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I think it's easily doable in less than 7 days /played. I wasted tons of time AFKing and multiboxing on ED, took me little more than 7 days. And I was playing alliance, where I don't know the quests particularly well.
 
...Exaggerating much ?... even if you only played during the weekends it wouldnt take half a year to get to lvl 60?... do you only play 2-3 times a month ?... and if you dislike leveling that much i cannot see why you would play 1.12.1 at all then...

and yes most have studies or a job but even then leveling from 1-60 takes 2-8 week's and 12 at most if you keep playing and don't take a break. you can even use leveling guides to speedup the leveling progress and time.

and while in a capital or inn you store rested xp so you can lvl at 2x rate for up to 1½ levels.

Nah im not exaggerating, im even not taking into the calculation that i will go on vacation and exam weeks, times when i wont play. I study alot, do sport and other activities that lets me play around 1-2h max on weekdays and 3h max on weekend. So lets say that lets me play on average 12h a week.
To get to 60 i need around 10 days /played, thats 240 hours. 240/12 is 20 weeks, thats 5 months.
 
This thread again.

I prefer playing 1x.
I would prefer everyone on the server playing 1x with me.
I don't feel this needs to be tricked up.
All this work on the server in my opinion would go to waste, and yes I still feel the same way even if the increase was small. I enjoy the long grind of this game, and can't wait to see it all.

If you can't do it for whatever reason, then don't play on a 1x server, or as was stated earlier, on a 1.12 server at all.
The reason I play 1x servers, is because I really enjoy the "never-ending" feeling it provides from day 1.
 
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