A dilemma

[Harpoonz]

Should we implement blizzlike mechanic, even if it looks like broken? Should we follow "blizzlike" standard at all costs?

For rogues patch 1.12 added in game many changes and some.. bugs. Famous vanish bug for example (sometimes vanish would fail to work) and sadly, this bug went right into TBC and persists whole expansion. I remember another 1.12 bug, enemy autoattack does not goes off when rogue stealth and when stealthed rogue come to melee range he gets autoattacked out of stealth instantly. However blizzard fixed it fast.

According to this source: in 1.12 sap start proc effects from both weapons, enchants and poisons included. Don't really think this was intended and later blizzard changed it back. Don't know when, might be before TBC.

In a support of "not intended" version, directly from 1.12 patch notes:
Sap: Enemy rogues will now always lose stealth when you Sap them.

So they do change sap mechanic in this patch and seems like occasionally messed it up. They might made it physical attack without damage or something. We can only guess.

Anyway, this change to sap forces rogues to completely avoid deadly poison and variety of weapons with dot procs on it. Could blizz intentionally do this? I don't think so, since it doesn't seems right.

My bug report https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=3982 was marked as "not a bug" (which is true).

Now it's up to developers to decide should it stay as is or change it. I also would like to hear other players opinion about this issue. What do you think?

Sorry for my terrible english.

 

[Liebguckerle]

When it comes to blizzlike, there are some who'd like everything to be "blizzlike", bugs and mistakes done by Blizz included. I'm more flexible on that topic. In my opinion, no need to include their bugs if you can make it work. Anyways, before thinking about that thing you mentionend, i think there are more serious issues to be adressed.

So far what i've seen on this server, well, it's very impressive. Quest lines working i've never seen work on any other server, so many nice scripts, abilities working nearly all pefectly, nearly perfect pathfinding, casters comming at you if you hide behind a tree... getting that close to the original - and the original "vanilla experience" - that's pretty impressive.

However after having done a testrun in a low dungeon (BFD), i'm getting the impression that these dungeons - and i think most - haven't really been adressed. I will test others, but i'm pretty sure it might be a walk in the park.They'd still have to be reworked - and i hope that will be done.

Cause the need to use CC, strategy in general, the need for the tank to pull mobs back from inside a room, having to turn monsters in a specific direction etc. that - to me - is one of the essentials of vanilla experience.

Personally i'd be sad to see the high end content beeing improved later without having the instances reworked. So as for "blizzlike", personally, i'd like to have the focus here, but that's just me

 

[costy]

Many times Blizzard said : "This is not a bug, this is intended." I really don't know how sap worked with those procs but i am sure that at 1.12.2 time bugs were fixed and all worked like dev team wanted. It is just a guess.
I personally faced a situation like this with my priest. When i got cs/kick on a holy spell i was not able to use PW:S even if that was a Discipline school spell. After reading the official blizz forums i saw they said this was not a bug , it is the way they wanted it to be. Kinda illogical but they had reasons.

 

[nimeralos]

Now it's up to developers to decide should it stay as is or change it.

Everything is up to devs. Trees breaking LoS? Chests doesn't count for a group loot? Sleeping beasts? 10g respec? Non-Blizzlike. But sometimes it's good to be non-Blizzlike. Sometimes it's bad. I believe that such a delicate mechanics as poison procs should be kept... neither Blizzlike nor non-Blizzlike, but how it's easier to implement We'll always have some bugs, and it's bad to concentrate on a single disputable bug and slow down the whole development process. Devs know what they're doing!

But philosophically it's interesting

 

[Stivar]

However after having done a testrun in a low dungeon (BFD), i'm getting the impression that these dungeons - and i think most - haven't really been adressed. I will test others, but i'm pretty sure it might be a walk in the park.They'd still have to be reworked - and i hope that will be done.

Cause the need to use CC, strategy in general, the need for the tank to pull mobs back from inside a room, having to turn monsters in a specific direction etc. that - to me - is one of the essentials of vanilla experience.

Personally i'd be sad to see the high end content beeing improved later without having the instances reworked. So as for "blizzlike", personally, i'd like to have the focus here, but that's just me

This makes me VERY nervos too....

 

[Lexenadar]

Kronos has already deviated enough from 100% Blizzlike (10g respec, Trees blocking LoS, etc) to chase away dogmatic purists. Those people are going to stay in Nostarius for certain, we've lost them already EVEN if Kronos's scripts and bug fixing are better. Which is why the image Kronos should give is ''Pragmatic Blizzlike'' or something along those lines. That's the marketing we must aim for. That way, we have something different to offer, something that'll definitely attract players who share the philosophy that, while vanilla is the version of WoW that corresponds the most to the model they want to play, it is not perfect and can use some minor features in order to make it better, especially in regards to adapting to the ''private server'' situation.

Per instance, temporary altered spawn rates at launch. I've played on Nostalrius and it is absolutely a pain to level. A lot of people are asking for augmented spawn rates, and they're getting mocked at by the hardcore purists (which form a minority among the community but are still the ones the devs listen to the most). Their demands are being rejected on the premise it isn't Blizzlike (well, one could argue that 5K pop all low-lvl is NOT blizzlike. Indeed, it isn't. But for the aryan purists, it doesn't matter, as changing spawn rates is heresy). If Kronos's devs can sell the idea that they, unlike Nostalrius, are pragmatic people who are willing to listen to the demands of the community, we'll win people that way.

The current problem is, while a lot of people associate those two different philosophies with the two servers, only Nostalrius has given its stance officially. Kronos is afraid of saying loud and clear ''we're willing to deviate from 100% Blizzlike in some situations, such as : etc etc''. They're afraid of scaring some people off, but as I said, those people are already scared off. But the attitude they disdain is what could gain us a LOT of players, if only we take the initiative of selling our ideas and our philosophy to the receptive audience.

 

[dsquidvicious]

To avoid proccing the poison or chance on hit from a weapon you could write a macro to equip one wep for sap and then swap it after sap goes off.

 

[Skosh]

I think if the Kronos staff is taking the goal of implimenting the intended functionality of class abilities, equipment, consumables, or other game features that might have been once listed as bugged in a certain past retail patch set - They are doing the right thing. Stupid stuff like Reck bombs or bugged class features isn't something to chase after in putting into a private server to impart a feeling of authenticity. Really.

Kronos has already deviated enough from 100% Blizzlike (10g respec, Trees blocking LoS, etc) to chase away dogmatic purists. Those people are going to stay in Nostarius for certain, we've lost them already EVEN if Kronos's scripts and bug fixing are better.

I am a purist, and I was chased away by mobs with Infinite Chase Range, rubber banding movement, select NPC's cheerfully walking through walls or the ground as well as refusing to fight back, and other bugs that servers such as Valkyrie and even Rebirth have had fixed for a half year at minimum to several years back. Also, dynamic spawns of mobs in noob zone areas were a part of the game in old Retail pre Burning Crusade. Don't tell me it wasn't, because the elf starting zone on Cenarian Circle server was chock full of players mowing down cats and boars at a rate that had people joking about their reproductive cycles. I'm positive I'm not alone in my reaction to what I experienced either. I wouldn't sweat it too hard.

 

[Aieris]

I am a purist, and I was chased away by mobs with Infinite Chase Range, rubber banding movement, select NPC's cheerfully walking through walls or the ground as well as refusing to fight back, and other bugs that servers such as Valkyrie and even Rebirth have had fixed for a half year at minimum to several years back.

Also Kronos had these things fixed years ago.. and then closed development came.. and bugs poped out once more.

 

[nimeralos]

At least we have the Beta Test to drive them back again

 

[Norm964BGB]

When it comes to blizzlike, there are some who'd like everything to be "blizzlike", bugs and mistakes done by Blizz included. I'm more flexible on that topic. In my opinion, no need to include their bugs if you can make it work. Anyways, before thinking about that thing you mentionend, i think there are more serious issues to be adressed.

So far what i've seen on this server, well, it's very impressive. Quest lines working i've never seen work on any other server, so many nice scripts, abilities working nearly all pefectly, nearly perfect pathfinding, casters comming at you if you hide behind a tree... getting that close to the original - and the original "vanilla experience" - that's pretty impressive.

However after having done a testrun in a low dungeon (BFD), i'm getting the impression that these dungeons - and i think most - haven't really been adressed. I will test others, but i'm pretty sure it might be a walk in the park.They'd still have to be reworked - and i hope that will be done.

Cause the need to use CC, strategy in general, the need for the tank to pull mobs back from inside a room, having to turn monsters in a specific direction etc. that - to me - is one of the essentials of vanilla experience.

Personally i'd be sad to see the high end content beeing improved later without having the instances reworked. So as for "blizzlike", personally, i'd like to have the focus here, but that's just me

Unluckily you picked the easiest of all low lvl dungeons around. The whole dungeon is just a huge tank'n'spank fest with weak mobs.
SFK is much harder in comparison.

 

[Liebguckerle]

Well, BFD is as it comes when you download the current Mangosversion. Visibly nothing has been done there. And given i haven't seen any big fixes on instances, i guess it might be the same for most others. But of course, i'd let myself be surprised, i like surprises

And BFD is not supposed to be that easy, it is in fact one of the tougher low level instances... or it should be

 

[Zed]

May you should take a look at sfk

 

[Gilthresa]

If I'm remembering right, the final boss in BFD ought to summon crabs or turtles or some shit like that to fight with/for him.

 

[Kanariya]

If I'm remembering right, the final boss in BFD ought to summon crabs or turtles or some shit like that to fight with/for him.

I don't recall that at all, nor could I find any evidence of it. Are you talking about the room before where you have to light the torches that each summon a wave of mobs?

 

[Rugul]

If I'm remembering right, the final boss in BFD ought to summon crabs or turtles or some shit like that to fight with/for him.

Ya that was second to last boss. But you killed the boss first and then in order to open door to last boss you had to light the torches one by one. Spawning a wave each time. Crabs. Turtles. Water elementals. After defeating all waves and each torch lite. Then the door would open

 

[pinacolata]

if we come to bad blizzlike decisions i would like to discuss the disonhorable kills system. In my opinion that system is purely bad, it discourages all types of invasions on towns, cities, etc.

 

[Gilthresa]

Ah OK that's what it was then.