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Allowing GDKP - Discussion

Should GDKP raids be allowed on K3?


  • Total voters
    10

vymiwarr

New Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Likes
1
#1
In this thread i would like to talk about the loot system known as GDKP (gold dragon kill points) which is currently not allowed on K3. For those that don't know how it works i will give a brief explanation.

--- Items in raids are given set minimum gold value that remains consistent each week. When these items drop, any player who could use or would want the item is able to bid on the item starting at the set minimum value. There is a set minimum bid value as well that is predetermined that prevents 1copper up-bidding and things like that. The last person to place a bid wins the item after they reach a point of no contest. The gold is transferred to the loot master and this process repeats for every item that drops throughout the raid until the raid is complete. Once finished, the loot master takes all the gold collected and divides it by how many players are in the raid and distributes it evenly. ---

Now, the purpose of making this post is so that we can discuss the positives and negatives of allowing GDKP on K3. I would like to express my opinion on why i think it could be valuable and fun addition to the server, while also addressing some of the concerns that have been raised against the idea. GDKP was not allowed on K1 for quite a while but was given the green light late in K1's lifetime. With the experiences and data i was able to collect during that time i feel like i have some insight on the topic and i would like to share that with you. Lets try and keep the discussion about the system impact on the server and not on the strength of the system itself as a way to handle loot. I would also like to explore opinions of both the kronos administration as well as the player base. So please comment and share your thoughts as im sure there are things i have not thought of and that should be talked about.

One of the strongest claims against GDKP is that it inadvertently encourages players to purchase gold as a means to quickly gear up or gain an edge over others. The system is a competitive one, where the entirety of the loot decisions is purely based on who has more gold. Players who otherwise would not buy gold may feel more tempted to buy, which potentially risks the integrity of the player as well as well as strengthens gold-sellers.

The waters may become muddy when you have players potentially lending each other gold (in high amounts not normally seen) to participate with and in GDKP runs. On K1 we saw many players (including myself) who had alts played by other players who were given gdkp ending gold to their mains as compensation. This is potentially dangerous because it is using gold to pay others to complete a service in-game that may be hard to moderate (i have never heard this it is only an assumption).

Another worry GDKP runs cause a lot of people is how they very easily facilitate abuse by individual leadership. GDKP can lead to issues, and while every system has the potential for abuse, gdkp leaders have the ability to cause a lot of widespread damage. If these problems arise they are most likely to be very serious to the victims and increase the workload of GM's needing to solve them. Lastly, in the past i have heard that GDKP runs are not healthy for the server economy. While i was never given a direct reason why, i would ask that if you agree with this please leave an explanation as to why you think so and what impact it may or may not have.

Trust is hard to gain on a game and you can never be sure of someone intentions, i feel that vanilla wow with a healthy server pop is the best possible place gdkp can exist. Leaders who are shady or who act poorly are unlikely to have members come back and once trust is built or destroyed word travels quickly within the community. The gdkp runs i was in had players not spending much gold at the start and as trust was built they invested more into it. I doubt abuse would happen and if it did im sure the community would work it out as it was needed. This issue is purely contingent on the individual making smart decisions and GM intervention in major issues shouldn't be a big problem.

The issue of account sharing and gold lending/paying never seemed to be much of an issue in the past. It didn't always happen and when it did it never led to any problems that i know of. If you are paying someone to raid on your alt and you give them your own gold to spend for your character you aren't really hurting anyone. In fact, the gold you spend is just getting added to the pot and generally people would not know the difference unless they had knowledge of it happening. The ethical side of account sharing and compensation to the person playing at first seems wrong. When you look at it though its just like anything else in-game. You are paying someone to do a service and that service doesn't hurt others... if it was pvp then yes that would be wrong as its a lot more competitive environment. In GDKP runs regardless of whether or not you win loot everyone is winning gold. A simple solution would be to not allow account sharing when participating in GDKP raids. I don't feel that action is warranted and i lean toward the side of leaving it unregulated with the possibility of changing that in the future if action is needed.

Ok, now for the big one. Gold selling. This was the initial and strongest reason i have seen for being against allowing GDKP to exist on K3. The claim is very logical, people want gear - gear costs gold - people need gold - people buy gold - people get gear. However, i would argue that people who will buy gold will do it regardless of another temptation. There are already plenty of temptations for people to purchase gold on wow. Every aspect of the game has ways in which having more gold just makes it easier/quicker. People buying gold to use in GDKP raids is not a fault of the system but a fault of the player. I have no data or evidence of how many gold buying bans happened during the K1 GDKP runs but i will say that i did not hear of any people who participated get in trouble. If players buy gold for a GDKP run they should be banned just like in any situation and i feel like that is their fault and their fault only. Gold may be hard to come by but GDKP raids reward consistency and patience. People will get gold the more they come to spend on items they want and resorting to gold buying is not something people should feel pushed into.

I truly believe that GDKP runs will not cause unmanageable issues on the server and the positives outweigh the negatives. I admit that GDKP runs are unlikely to be widespread and cause much change on the server. We don't know for sure though! Wealthy players (hunters - mages) might be looking to buy and there is a real potential for a healthy gold sink. Gold spreading out amongst players instead of being horded by a few, players farming more to sell on the AH so they can then spend more in a GDKP run. It could be healthy for the AH! I also think that runs like these add a certain dynamic to raiding that makes it both exciting and different. On k1, we had so much excitement wondering if a big item would drop, who was going to spend how much and on what. We had a discord bot where we would check the current pot size and get excited about it. If a run went poorly we would hope for the next weeks to be better. If the pot was huge we were all so excited even if the raid itself was messy. It was just a fun dynamic you really couldn't get in any other raid type. Loot was fun and 0 drama. I really think it could be fun to bring back and with good moderation, community led trust, and a administration monitoring it could be a great thing to bring back.

I struggle to make my points clear and i appreciate you reading this. If there are errors then i appologize i am not going back to read it lol. Also, I recognize that players are not the ones who make changes and if the kronos team does not want gdkp then thats it plain and simple and i accept that. Please share with me your thoughts and concerns and what you think about this loot system and its effects on the server!
 
Last edited:

Oidd

Authorized
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Likes
156
Location
Greece
#3
+1
despite the issues it brings, gdkp runs help towards server activity and that is the greatest benefit

especially when more content is released and older raids (the target of gdkp runs anyway) are of secondary importance to guilds, gdkp runs are actually a good way for people from various guilds to hunt the last items they need, gear their alts etc
newcomers also benefit from gdkp runs when in the long run as content is released and 5mans are becoming rare, farming gold and participating in gdkp runs is a good way to compensate
people that have no time/interest to raid regularly in a guild also benefit from gdkp runs

as for the possible misuse of gdkp runs, its up to the community to fix it and self-regulate the runs
 
Last edited:

Cr0wL0ck

New Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Likes
162
#6
GDKP would only accomplish one thing...
Encouraging Money for Gold transactions...

Furthermore Risen is hardly unique... many guilds do pugs atm, yes that currently is only mc & ony but that is all that is out... pugs aint that rare.

If you like GDKP you where born with a silver spoon in your mouth and deserve a slap in order to wake up... you should not be able to pay your way through everything it creates nothing but trouble if not for the warped mind of the buyer then for those who cannot afford it like for example rogue's or shamans who cannot do Tribute run farms or those less skilled at the auctionhouse... Gold should be for BoE, materials and such but not easy guaranteed tickets to get in a raid and get what you want without having to socialize or work your way through ranks or loot system...

Furthermore it would create a lot more issues for Game Masters... especially maintaining a default minimum price or if a guild suddenly decides to scam a person and ask for 50% more than was agreed upon or the player gets item but doesnt pay or the sellers take gold but give item to another...

Heck gold sellers can even use it as an excuse to transfer gold and the warden system would need extra additions to look away from certain cases in raid and what to consider a shady transaction... for example if a player pays 1k gold for a simple dagger no one needed who is to say that person wasnt desperate for it instead of trying to trade ? They would have to add a lot of stuff to the warden and game masters would have to circle raids like vultures trying to differentiate between silver spoon fools versus sellers/buyers... almost no diff aside from 1 side could have farmed it while the other side hasnt.

This creates an ocean of issues and only causes those interrested in GDKP to become anti-social within a game that is meant for the social... if you want to pay for everything and be anti social then retail accepts that fully...
 
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