Other Feral druid and Guild performance

[Ancient]

Hello there, i didnt put in in Druid forum, because its more related to general guild composition and performance.

So, why guilds in vanilla dont tend to take atleast -1- feral druid instead of another rogue or mage?
Would this move increase the overall raid damage with the 3% crit buff even with the low single dps output of that feral druid

maybe even as off tank, but Theorycraft wise, it seems like a very smart move, makes me realy wonder why isnt that popular

Overall damage of:
Full raid with 1 feral druid vs full raid without 1 feral druid

Thanks

 

[maredasan]

Hello there, i didnt put in in Druid forum, because its more related to general guild composition and performance.

So, why guilds in vanilla dont tend to take atleast -1- feral druid instead of another rogue or mage?
Would this move increase the overall raid damage with the 3% crit buff even with the low single dps output of that feral druid

maybe even as off tank, but Theorycraft wise, it seems like a very smart move, makes me realy wonder why isnt that popular

Overall damage of:
Full raid with 1 feral druid vs full raid without 1 feral druid

Thanks

Only 1 group would get the crit buff. =/

 

[Szabinger]

Only 1 group would get the crit buff. =/

Yup. Leader of the Pack is not a raid wide buff in vanilla, only your group gets it.

 

[maredasan]

I mean, I could see it work. Put a Feral in a Warrior/Rogue Windfury group and they'll be quite happy. However... it's rly hard to itemize until later (AQ). Before that, there rly is very little gear to get for u. Even PvP gear is pretty bad.

 

[Spufy]

Feral is good...but not good enought to replace mage/rogue .After AQ maybe can.I wanna play shaman...but my Guild roll me for druid heal...so will play dudu heal..no shaman heal(shaman heal more op )

 

[dzonibegood]

in vanilla it's either balance, heal or off tank... feral is fucked up in vanilla xD

 

[Gilthresa]

Hello there, i didnt put in in Druid forum, because its more related to general guild composition and performance.

So, why guilds in vanilla dont tend to take atleast -1- feral druid instead of another rogue or mage?
Would this move increase the overall raid damage with the 3% crit buff even with the low single dps output of that feral druid

maybe even as off tank, but Theorycraft wise, it seems like a very smart move, makes me realy wonder why isnt that popular

Overall damage of:
Full raid with 1 feral druid vs full raid without 1 feral druid

Thas

The simple answer is that for many guilds, due to the lack of solid itemization for ferals before Aq40 and naxx, their DPs wasn't high enough to replace a pure melee DPS, such as a rogue or fury warrior, even with their group wide 3% crit from Master of the Pack.

For progression guilds, this meant longer instance runs due to reduced DPS, and potentially delaying server/region/world firsts, and they weren't interested in doing that.

For most other guilds, you only had 25 or so competent players carrying the other 15, and any reduction in output was undesirable.

Personally I like ferals, and I've seen them do decent enough DPS for my liking through BWL and partway through Aq40 and Naxx, but then I was never a progression raider in the hardcore, server first or bust sense.

 

[Hagson]

The 3% crit buff is not enough to make up for the dps loss you get for bringing a feral instead of a rogue.

in vanilla it's either balance, heal or off tank... feral is fucked up in vanilla xD

Balance and off tank are not viable speccs in vanilla.
In PvE heal you heal.

 

[Ancient]

Question is, if you calculate the feral dps + its damage bonus by 3% crit, how close is he for being valid as a rogue? (1 feral) 80% of a rogue? 90% of a rogue?
if its around 80-90% i don't see why its not possible to do, since in vanilla its known that out of the 40 men at least 5 are afking doing white damage and /sit on fire

Would like to hear your opinions regarding my statements in this comment

edit #1:
Giving that the feral will put its top maximum efforts and be a good player, still innervate and never fuck up

 

[CuRS3DSiLeNcE]

I think a Feral deals quite okay damage, if you're ambitious. I don't think that your damage will be under 70% of a rogues and the 3% crit + the innervate/decurse are helpful.

The real problem will be getting gear, if you like to never get anything it's fine, but there are nearly no good items for a feral.

 

[Hagson]

Question is, if you calculate the feral dps + its damage bonus by 3% crit, how close is he for being valid as a rogue? (1 feral) 80% of a rogue? 90% of a rogue?
if its around 80-90% i don't see why its not possible to do, since in vanilla its known that out of the 40 men at least 5 are afking doing white damage and /sit on fire

Would like to hear your opinions regarding my statements in this comment

edit #1:
Giving that the feral will put its top maximum efforts and be a good player, still innervate and never fuck up

If you assuming the rogue is shit and the feral is good ofc. the feral will be better.
If both are equally skilled the rogue will beat him every day of the week.

 

[Amel]

Let me say this up front though i don't think a feral will get the dps a rogue or mage gets, don't even think it'll get the dps a warrior or lock gets, might get close to a hunter's dps tho....

I see as the main issue here that gear will be a problem, i don't really see it like that, granted there is no epic set that caters to ferals but neither is there one for dps warriors. I've never raided on a feral druid, never had a feral in my raids dps b4 tbc tbf so i have no idea what exactly they need as far as stats go, i'm assuming the same hit caps as other melee, so 9% for abilities and MH but aim for 12-13% ish (at least that's how i did it on my fury warrior all the time). As far as gear is concerned i reckon they'd just roll with what would be considered rogue random items and craftables eg truestrike, shadowcraft, devilsaur, .... (not rly good at this, I'm always a warrior XD).

The innervate can come in handy, don't expect em to decurse unless fights that don't allow melee (only shazzrah comes to mind atm) but let's be fair if they but even the tiniest bit of effort in some tanking gear they can offtank at major domo, sulferon and garr and on trash. So what i'm saying is it's not that bad to have 1 along if u got one and he's flexible, as in not I AM DPS AND DPS ONLEH!!!!11one!! (u know what i mean).

And as far as that flexibility goes, he can always just heal in raids or on bosses where it's needed, because correct me if i'm wrong but aside from 1 druid (the one with highest healing) using rejuvenation the rest just spam rank 3/4/5 healing touch in which case being resto helps but it's not mandatory.

 

[maredasan]

I see as the main issue here that gear will be a problem, i don't really see it like that, granted there is no epic set that caters to ferals but neither is there one for dps warriors.

Mate, dps warriors have gear they can use for every single slot (mc/bwl/zg progress), and that is without using PvP items. U can even use some mail (rag crown) AND leather items. Druids can only use leather, and their PvP set isnt very good for feral. Just atlasloot and u'll see that it is quite a bit harder to make a feral full epix before AQ hits.

 

[Amel]

Mate, dps warriors have gear they can use for every single slot (mc/bwl/zg progress), and that is without using PvP items. U can even use some mail (rag crown) AND leather items. Druids can only use leather, and their PvP set isnt very good for feral. Just atlasloot and u'll see that it is quite a bit harder to make a feral full epix before AQ hits.

I did say SET didn't I? btw crown of destruction is shite for pve dps warrior espec since lionheart is easy to make.
Btw i'm only looking at what gear will be available at launch so not bwl/zg gear and then for me as far as gearing for MC goes druids don't have it easy by any means but it's still doable just from what i recall cba doing atlas checks atm, might do later if ppl rly want to know, here's a list of what i'd go for as a feral pre raids.
mask of the unforgiven (or something like that, from strat from shocker the unforgiven)
ony neck would be best ofc but could do with the q reward from the 'of love and family' tirion chain
truestrike shoulders
cloak from drakki/houndmaster (i think) in BRD
cadaverous chest (scholo) pretty good iirc
bracers, beast for the hit, otherwise immolthar i think blabla of the eclipse
gloves, devilsaur
belt, can't think of a good one so go with serpentine or SC till ZG is released (Q belt)
legs, devilsaur
boots, i reckon SC or the ones from princess in BRD
ring, what's it called, tarnished elven ring *2 (DM tribute) perhaps 1* blackstone ring (maraudon princess)
trinkets blackhand's breath and the green q reward from hinterlands (hit + 20 ap) blabla guardian
weapon, i can't recall if the dps matters if not which i think it doesn't get baron rivendare dagger and offhand from galsomething in strat scarlet

with these items i reckon u should do okayish on dps and have enough hit (u got 8% + whatever devilsaur gives cos I know it gives some but can't recall how much and how much of that u need LWing for and my brain hurts from thinking up the rest).

The thing is you don't need full epics to do decent dps or clear content for that matter. It helps ofc as for warrior the only gear (aside from weapons/ring/trinkets ofc) that's actually amazing b4 AQ is boots off chrom and flameguard gauntlets ofc

 

[Gilthresa]

Mate, dps warriors have gear they can use for every single slot (mc/bwl/zg progress), and that is without using PvP items. U can even use some mail (rag crown) AND leather items. Druids can only use leather, and their PvP set isnt very good for feral. Just atlasloot and u'll see that it is quite a bit harder to make a feral full epix before AQ hits.

This. Our DPS warriors were usually wearing an amalgam of Plate + Mail, like the Rag Crown.

 

[Amel]

This. Our DPS warriors were usually wearing an amalgam of Plate + Mail, like the Rag Crown.

Your dps warriors were either lazy or cheap or both they should have gotten lionheart helmet instead of crow of destruction, give that useless thing (bit harsh but not entirely untrue) to a hunter who can't get either giantstalker or dragonstalker to drop or better yet give it to a shaman or pala to pvp or pimp around in OG or IF with.

 

[Xadas]

Lol, your guild is "making" you roll druid to heal instead of shaman? the only thing that a druid can do better is battle rez. and you're going along with this? i'd tell my Guild to shove it, or /gquit. thats really ridiculous.
stand up for yourself, bro.

 

[Gilthresa]

Your dps warriors were either lazy or cheap or both they should have gotten lionheart helmet instead of crow of destruction, give that useless thing (bit harsh but not entirely untrue) to a hunter who can't get either giantstalker or dragonstalker to drop or better yet give it to a shaman or pala to pvp or pimp around in OG or IF with.

We were literally swimming in helms. Our luck with gear was what one could call terrible. All our rogues were sword because maladath would drop every run. We had no t2 priest legs, but a million pally legs. It was really fucked up and got so bad we just had to laugh at it.

The only good thing about it WS that getting nexus crystals weren't a problem at all.

 

[maredasan]

Your dps warriors were either lazy or cheap or both they should have gotten lionheart helmet instead of crow of destruction, give that useless thing (bit harsh but not entirely untrue) to a hunter who can't get either giantstalker or dragonstalker to drop or better yet give it to a shaman or pala to pvp or pimp around in OG or IF with.

Whatevs man, I was just saying that u have the OPTION to wear other gear, meaning u have more potential looterino.

 

[SeeQ]

I played feral on the previous, although I never get to try him in a raid. As far as 5mans go, I was never 3rd (last). Simply because they excel at short engages. Ravage - shred - fero, done. But in long raid fights, especially without AQ gear, you cannot afford any mistakes and need to put so much effort, like perfect timings on form swapping for Furor etc.

Theres a youtube video called feral naxx dps or something like that, shows it pretty clear what to do, and he does pretty good, I believe like 700dps, somewhere in the middle I think he beat all hunters atleast. But thats pretty much naxx only

 

[Hagson]

Your dps warriors were either lazy or cheap or both they should have gotten lionheart helmet instead of crow of destruction, give that useless thing (bit harsh but not entirely untrue) to a hunter who can't get either giantstalker or dragonstalker to drop or better yet give it to a shaman or pala to pvp or pimp around in OG or IF with.

Lionheart was added in patch 1.10

 

[Amel]

Lionheart was added in patch 1.10

indeed my bad, wowhead even says 1.11.1, been playing on private servers for 2 long i fear.

as far as druids are concerned so we can take it back on topic, i never said it was easy to get gear, just that it's doable (as far as warriors are concerned i only mentioned them not having a dps set to set em appart from pure dps classes like rogues, mages, locks and hunters) you just have to be a bit creative. i posted a list in my 2 post here i think so have a look at that, should work for you if you are commited to being a feral dps.

 

[filvorja]

Hello there, i didnt put in in Druid forum, because its more related to general guild composition and performance.

Fair enough. Its still fits in here way better then the general section.

As I am here already. Feral is pointless in PvE :tongue:

 

[KaiZen]

Well, you're right about feral being behind other classes in terms of dps (even with LoP talent), but I think we play this game for fun so why not tolerate few moonkins or ferals? In retail it wasn't really a big deal. I'm not saying it was effective, but it was pretty much okay to have few of them in raid. Raids felt much more diverse btw. It's really boring to see only few dps specs, just because they are the most effective. To be honest I was very happy to see for example shadow priest in my group when I was raiding with my warlock.

Also inviting these players means additional decurse/dispell or backup heal if necessary. Rogue/warr might be better dps, but they won't give you battle ress, heal or decurse if something goes wrong. Especially if you don't have a perfect setup, these "hybrids" might save your ass.

So for me it's basically play what you like the most. Forcing ppl to play something they don't even like? Come on, that's just sick and twisted :wacko:

 

[Rolexsweep]

Well, you're right about feral being behind other classes in terms of dps (even with LoP talent), but I think we play this game for fun so why not tolerate few moonkins or ferals? In retail it wasn't really a big deal. I'm not saying it was effective, but it was pretty much okay to have few of them in raid. Raids felt much more diverse btw. It's really boring to see only few dps specs, just because they are the most effective. To be honest I was very happy to see for example shadow priest in my group when I was raiding with my warlock.

Also inviting these players means additional decurse/dispell or backup heal if necessary. Rogue/warr might be better dps, but they won't give you battle ress, heal or decurse if something goes wrong. Especially if you don't have a perfect setup, these "hybrids" might save your ass.

So for me it's basically play what you like the most. Forcing ppl to play something they don't even like? Come on, that's just sick and twisted :wacko:

Because it is easier from a leadership point of view to force people to stick to the intented raid specs. Sure, raid 0 you have a feral who tags along and you still do fine. Week 2 you have to turn down your second priest wanting to respecc shadow, the ret pala and the moonkin. Why should the feral druid be the only one being gifted with the off-spec role? Because it's the best of the worst?

So much for playing what you like, right