Storfan
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The difference would be that even if you decrease the penalty of the glancing blows damage reduction to 0%, its still a glancing blow and thus cannot be a crit.
Warrior [GUIDE] Fury Pre-Raid-BiS-List / Specs / Enchants
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Jahreno
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And btw, Glancing blows on lvl 63 targets have static %40 chance in blizzlike, your weapon skill is irrelevant. It
only effects your damage reduction, %3 reduction for per 1 skill point, %70 with 300 skill and %100 with 310.
Speaking of native languages, Fei pls dont speak korean. Go commit halbok.
only effects your damage reduction, %3 reduction for per 1 skill point, %70 with 300 skill and %100 with 310.
Speaking of native languages, Fei pls dont speak korean. Go commit halbok.
OnslaughtFei
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Unless it was changed on this server, we were getting low 30 percentiles on glancing with axes on the undercity test dummies as orc.
Cpstabber
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Don't forget the increased base hit% which would then translate into more crits, but only by about 2.7%
Base hit chance? That is something I've never heard of.
If you mean the hit and crit from weapon skill it's 0.04% per skill IIRC, and only when your weapon skill exceeds the target's defense if I'm not mistaken? Not sure how you arrive at 2.7%
edit: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_skill?oldid=349298 is the formulas etc the server uses for glancings according to https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread.php/57011-Big-TheoryCrafting-Thread?p=498322&viewfull=1#post498322
The wiki link does give some weird stuff in the crit cap section, such as 2handers only needing 5.6% hit vs level 63 targets at 0 weapon skill and hit.
If you mean the hit and crit from weapon skill it's 0.04% per skill IIRC, and only when your weapon skill exceeds the target's defense if I'm not mistaken? Not sure how you arrive at 2.7%
edit: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_skill?oldid=349298 is the formulas etc the server uses for glancings according to https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread.php/57011-Big-TheoryCrafting-Thread?p=498322&viewfull=1#post498322
The wiki link does give some weird stuff in the crit cap section, such as 2handers only needing 5.6% hit vs level 63 targets at 0 weapon skill and hit.
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Horo
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offtopic
It's easier to think of hit as "reduces your chance to miss" than "increases chance to hit".
Getting more hit means your crit cap will be higher. That's why fully buffed, Boots of the Shadow Flame are going to be slightly better than Chromatic Boots.
Through trial and error I figured out that Attack Power is king, aside from obscene itemlevel/itemization differences.
Over the years I've seen all kinds of numbers, and I started caring less and less about the decimals behind the comma. Just as an example with random numbers: I couldn't care less about whether my effective miss chance is x% or x.24%.
With that in mind, I have made my own guide for dw fury, with inspiration from an old friend from ED named Hiddeh. If anyone is interested, leave me a pm.
Essentially, all that matters is - as Fei said - that you got the basics figured out.
Recently some people have come up to me and asked why I'm using a 2.9 offhand speed weapon and whether Whirlwind is being performed with both weapons if their speed is identical... it's never getting boring with all the newbs.
I don't know what stabber's "base hit%" entails.
Getting more hit means your crit cap will be higher. That's why fully buffed, Boots of the Shadow Flame are going to be slightly better than Chromatic Boots.
Through trial and error I figured out that Attack Power is king, aside from obscene itemlevel/itemization differences.
Over the years I've seen all kinds of numbers, and I started caring less and less about the decimals behind the comma. Just as an example with random numbers: I couldn't care less about whether my effective miss chance is x% or x.24%.
With that in mind, I have made my own guide for dw fury, with inspiration from an old friend from ED named Hiddeh. If anyone is interested, leave me a pm.
Essentially, all that matters is - as Fei said - that you got the basics figured out.
Recently some people have come up to me and asked why I'm using a 2.9 offhand speed weapon and whether Whirlwind is being performed with both weapons if their speed is identical... it's never getting boring with all the newbs.
I don't know what stabber's "base hit%" entails.
Cpstabber
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I will just use reading kills on the exact site you linked:
For each point that your weapon skill exceeds your opponent's defense, you gain the following:
- Your chance to miss decreases by 0.04%.
- Your chance to score a critical hit increases by 0.04%.
- Your opponent's chance to block your attack decreases by 0.04%.
- Your opponent's chance to parry your attack decreases by 0.04%.
- Your opponent's chance to dodge your attack decreases by 0.04%.
Your weapon skill does not exceed a 315 def lvl 63 mob. So your 0.04% doesn't even apply to 300-310 skill damage increases and doge/parry/miss reductions.
It is so retarded how everybody goes right for this 0.04% bullshit when on this topic of weapon skill.
The 300 - 305 reduces your base chance to miss by 1.9%, another 0.8% from 306 to 310. 310 should give your white hits 2.7% less miess.
I will reiterate the key information you, For each point that your weapon skill exceeds
- - - Updated - - -
Get an alt, grind mobs the same level, not in parsing your miss%. Fight something 3 lvls higher and note the miss% (not glancings). Then fight something 1 level higher than you and parse it. You will hit the mob 1 lvl higher than you MUCH more than the 0.4% the exceeds formula mentions.
The limitations of skill that exceeds is so you don't one shit everybody and person in the game that is lower lvl than you.
- - - Updated - - -
Now I"m done ranting, I dug up from the archives the formula that was used from Vanilla to WotLK and it is actually 3.5% base miss reduction. Here is the math:
- The base chance for your attack to miss the mob:
- If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is less than or equal to 10then the formula for calculating your base miss chance against that mob is: 5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1%
- If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is greater than 10, then the formula for calculating your base miss chance against that mob is: 6% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill - 10)*.4%
- The base chance for your attack to be a critical strike is: 5% - (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*0.04%
- The base chance for your attack to be dodged by the mob is: 5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1%
- The base chance for your attack to be parried by the mob:
- If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is less than or equal to 10, your base parry rate is: 5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1%.
- If the difference between the mob's Defense Skill and your Weapon Skill is greater than 10, your base parry rate will be much higher. Exact figures are not known, but base parry rates of Boss mobs (effectively level 73 when attacked by level 70 players) are estimated to be between 10-15%, and may vary from one Boss to the next.
- The base chance for your attack to be blocked by the mob is probably the same as the base dodge rate, i.e.: 5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1%
- v. Level 80 mob: 5.0% / dual-wield: 24%
- v. Level 81 mob: 5.5% / dual-wield: 24.5%
- v. Level 82 mob: 6.0% / dual-wield: 25%
- v. Level 83 mob: 8.0% / dual-wield: 27%
Thus if you are a Level 80 character with a Weapon Skill of 400, you need a Hit Rating of 263 (8.00%) to never miss a shot against a Level 83 boss (or skull mob) with a special attack or single-wield auto-attack. What this means is that there is a big +hit benefit to keeping your Weapon Skill within 10 levels of the mobs you are trying to fight. For example, by improving your Weapon Skill from 390 to 395, you effectively reduce your chance to miss against Level 81 mobs by 3%! However, after getting to 395, increasing your Weapon Skill the next 5 levels, to 400, only reduces your chance to miss by an additional 0.5% (or 3.5% in total).
Prior to 3.0, the base miss chance when your target's defense was 11+ points higher than your weapon skill was 1% higher. Back then, there was a huge jump in miss rate reduction by going from, say, 349 to 350 Weapon Skill. This was the point where you switched from one formula to the other, and so this particular single point of Weapon Skill was worth a dramatic +1.4% hit against a Level 73 mob/boss.
Jahreno
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I think this is wrong.
%5 base miss chance on same level, %19 for dual wield penalty, %1 for each level difference. Weapon skill increase only reduces by %0.04 each point, its very, very minor.
If what you said was true, DPS rekkers would be CTS/Mala combo people or rogues. But its Ironfoe and r14 warriors who dont even have 310.(or 305)
%5 base miss chance on same level, %19 for dual wield penalty, %1 for each level difference. Weapon skill increase only reduces by %0.04 each point, its very, very minor.
If what you said was true, DPS rekkers would be CTS/Mala combo people or rogues. But its Ironfoe and r14 warriors who dont even have 310.(or 305)
Cpstabber
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It used to be that way. Until patch 1.4:
Fixed a bug where weapon skills were inappropriately capped at 5 times level. Characters should now gain benefit from weapon skill bonuses beyond their normal cap.
Those benifits are not the Exceeds ratio of 0.04%. A Maledeth alone should be:
+4 skill
Against a mob 3 levels higher than you, you get: 0.8% lower chance to miss,
0.4% lower chance to get dodged, 2.4% to be parried, and a 0.8% higher
chance to crit.
So the bug existed during alpha, beta and until 1.4. Where the MANGOS pulls it's formulas from; pre 1.4 or post 1.4 I do not know.
Fixed a bug where weapon skills were inappropriately capped at 5 times level. Characters should now gain benefit from weapon skill bonuses beyond their normal cap.
Those benifits are not the Exceeds ratio of 0.04%. A Maledeth alone should be:
+4 skill
Against a mob 3 levels higher than you, you get: 0.8% lower chance to miss,
0.4% lower chance to get dodged, 2.4% to be parried, and a 0.8% higher
chance to crit.
So the bug existed during alpha, beta and until 1.4. Where the MANGOS pulls it's formulas from; pre 1.4 or post 1.4 I do not know.
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For all your reading skills Cpstabber, you missed the point where I said it only applies when your weapon skill exceeds your target's defense. You even quoted it.
As for the hit formula, I might be wrong, but it sounds an awful lot like the one they introduced for weapon skill in TBC, after the whole glancing thing got nerfed - which again later in TBC was changed to expertise for most if not all items (and possibly racials too? I can't recall)
Patch 2.0.1 (05-Dec-2006): Weapon skill will no longer reduce the percentage damage lost due to glancing. The player will gain 0.1% to their critical strike rating per weapon skill against monsters above their level.
- And on top of my head I believe it also applied to hit.
You might be 100% correct on the hit part, as I said I've never heard of this concept before in vanilla. But so far you've linked stuff that might aswell be something from TBC.
As for the hit formula, I might be wrong, but it sounds an awful lot like the one they introduced for weapon skill in TBC, after the whole glancing thing got nerfed - which again later in TBC was changed to expertise for most if not all items (and possibly racials too? I can't recall)
Patch 2.0.1 (05-Dec-2006): Weapon skill will no longer reduce the percentage damage lost due to glancing. The player will gain 0.1% to their critical strike rating per weapon skill against monsters above their level.
- And on top of my head I believe it also applied to hit.
You might be 100% correct on the hit part, as I said I've never heard of this concept before in vanilla. But so far you've linked stuff that might aswell be something from TBC.
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Cpstabber
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Yeah had to go further back in the archives, the hit part should still hold true but the 2.0.1 did add the 0.1 crit.
Actually the source of the glancing formulas used by the server are listed in bugtracker comments and such. They were listed unofficially on wowwiki in 2006 by Beaza who is apparently someone who was involved in programming the combat mechanics, they fit the official formulas that were well known by the time WoTLK was out. They also match the numbers that Athan deduced back in the day and along with some other stuff these formulas can be practically confirmed.
With the credibility of the source somewhat established, here's the actual page on miss chance:http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Miss?oldid=356356
Notice how closely this matches the behavior of hit which was worked out in the later expansions:http://wow.gamepedia.com/Hit
Minor changes were made to values of course due to the weapon skill overhaul and so on, but the end result has hardly changed. TBC is an outlier in this regard, due to the "ghost hit" referenced here:http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Hit In WoTLK it was fixed and the hit cap against a raid boss was 8% as expected.
If the terminology he was using is throwing you off, well he never used the term hit rating in the first place and "rating" referenced attack rating which was referred to your weapon skill.
The hit page isn't perfect though since Beaza didn't quit make the distinction between base weapon skill and the total weapon skill after being modified by +skill items in this case.
Thankfully there's a weapon skill page by Beaza which does make the distinction between base weapon skill and total/modified weapon skill:http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_skill?oldid=349298 where it's explained that certain glancing formulas only use a maximum attack rating equivalent to 5*your level, i.e. base weapon skill.
In conjunction with this, you will notice that the 0.04% per rating difference on top the base 5% in the player on player and mob on player formulas is just simply referring to the difference between your total weapon skill and the enemy players total defense skill.
Whereas the formulas for player on mob and mob on mob take into account only the base weapon skill for the initial hit calculation (0.2% per rating difference if that rating difference is 11 or more and 0.1% per rating difference if it's 10 or less).
Then after it is finished, your bonus weapon skill is taken into account (if applicable) which gives an additional 0.04% hit difference per bonus weapon skill rating either from racials or gear.
With the credibility of the source somewhat established, here's the actual page on miss chance:http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Miss?oldid=356356
Notice how closely this matches the behavior of hit which was worked out in the later expansions:http://wow.gamepedia.com/Hit
Minor changes were made to values of course due to the weapon skill overhaul and so on, but the end result has hardly changed. TBC is an outlier in this regard, due to the "ghost hit" referenced here:http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Hit In WoTLK it was fixed and the hit cap against a raid boss was 8% as expected.
If the terminology he was using is throwing you off, well he never used the term hit rating in the first place and "rating" referenced attack rating which was referred to your weapon skill.
The hit page isn't perfect though since Beaza didn't quit make the distinction between base weapon skill and the total weapon skill after being modified by +skill items in this case.
Thankfully there's a weapon skill page by Beaza which does make the distinction between base weapon skill and total/modified weapon skill:http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_skill?oldid=349298 where it's explained that certain glancing formulas only use a maximum attack rating equivalent to 5*your level, i.e. base weapon skill.
Note: ignore the crit cap portion and below, it was there before Beaza's contribution, it's incorrect and was simply ignored by him, he only added the glancing formulas in this article.
In conjunction with this, you will notice that the 0.04% per rating difference on top the base 5% in the player on player and mob on player formulas is just simply referring to the difference between your total weapon skill and the enemy players total defense skill.
Whereas the formulas for player on mob and mob on mob take into account only the base weapon skill for the initial hit calculation (0.2% per rating difference if that rating difference is 11 or more and 0.1% per rating difference if it's 10 or less).
Then after it is finished, your bonus weapon skill is taken into account (if applicable) which gives an additional 0.04% hit difference per bonus weapon skill rating either from racials or gear.