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Lowlevel pvp and resists

H

Harpoonz

New Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
I'm highly concerned about spell resists in pvp. Most popular servers damned by broken mechanic: when there is 4-5 level difference between players, most, if not all spells casted by lower level player - resists. In other words, this mechanic acts in pvp exactly as in pve. In reality, level difference in pvp shouldn't increase resist chance so drastically.
Back in 2006 i've seen many pvp videos where players fought against red and even "skull" level players with minimum spell resists.
Found this one for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icWqS9af6uc#t=1009

My question is, how blizzlike this mechanic will be on kronos? It's very important, since server will be brand new and many will do pvp while leveling.

Sorry for my terrible english :)
 
And in fight against players 5 lvl higher he landed 20 out of 23 spells. Test it on feenix and tell me how it goes.Also take into consideration earthbind totem debuff in fight against paladin. It counts for successful spellcast.
 
Harpoonz said:
In reality, level difference in pvp shouldn't increase resist chance so drastically.
Back in 2006 i've seen many pvp videos where players fought against red and even "skull" level players with minimum spell resists.
Click to expand...

The thing is that back in 2006 there were almost none +lvl resist and miss dependence. I was playing 40 warlock and feared 60's chars with easy having about 1/10 resist score.I even killed 60 rogue when i was in tanaris.he was wearing T1 and he was a total noob in pvp but anyway he got almost every dot and curse of exhaustion and fear.I remember when my friend killed one pretty nice 60 rogue with his 45 warrior using his counter attack skill(dont remember the name of skill,which one had 1h then 30min CD).
BUT,but in 1.12 as i know blizzard already make resist and hit chance dependence on +lvl.
AND But it was still not the same as in pve that is true.it was smth like 60-70% of pve deminishing.
I hate blizz for that=))It was really epic when you killed some 60 warlock with your 45 rogue because they were just noobish as hell:yes:.It was some kind of punishment for casuals:lol:And it makes them stronger btw,some kind of motivation ya know.Since things like this happens,you could easily meet them on 60s BGs rippin your pals asses:cool2:

P.S sry for "pluckeyes" mistakes.but i learned english by simple watching the movies:laugh:
 
If +level resistance/avoidance scaling is wrong in mangos, try to find a proof, how it should scale in 1.12.1.. But i think that blizz changed that and left it be till.. wod? I don't know.
 
I am doubtful of these claims of 80%+ spell hits on higher level targets, as I definitely remember melee having an absolute pisser of a time attacking high level warriors with defense gear. Even at 60, rogues/warriors struggled to break through the defense ratings of tier 2 warriors, so I'd assume similar mechanics are in place for spells.

But I will look for evidence to support your claim regardless.
 
Kielon said:
BUT,but in 1.12 as i know blizzard already make resist and hit chance dependence on +lvl. AND But it was still not the same as in pve that is true.it was smth like 60-70% of pve deminishing.
Click to expand...
Don't think it's true, since back in 2007 on retail, my level 70 druid was killed by 5 man party of 53-56 level players in blackrock mountain. I was constantly feared by their warlock for almost whole time. And stunned by their paladin (once). It was rather easy for them...
 
ironervousides said:
I am doubtful of these claims of 80%+ spell hits on higher level targets, as I definitely remember melee having an absolute pisser of a time attacking high level warriors with defense gear. Even at 60, rogues/warriors struggled to break through the defense ratings of tier 2 warriors, so I'd assume similar mechanics are in place for spells.

But I will look for evidence to support your claim regardless.
Click to expand...

Mostly because tier2 alone gives +parry, dodge, block chance and increase block values.

I just found my old hard disk with vanilla pvp video collection and uploaded one video: http://youtu.be/cF4SVkUXpCM
level 35 rogue kills +3 +4 +5 +7 +9 and "skull" level players.

Apart from occasional resists from poisons and some hits misses (dual wield gives 19% chance to miss + 5% base miss rate) i couldn't see anything wrong.
 
Harpoonz said:
Mostly because tier2 alone gives +parry, dodge, block chance and increase block values.

I just found my old hard disk with vanilla pvp video collection and uploaded one video: http://youtu.be/cF4SVkUXpCM
level 35 rogue kills +3 +4 +5 +7 +9 and "skull" level players.

Apart from occasional resists from poisons and some hits misses (dual wield gives 19% chance to miss + 5% base miss rate) i couldn't see anything wrong.
Click to expand...

can yu apload more old videos ? for bug finding :winkiss:

could this help?


http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Magical_resistance
 
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I got ganked by a lvl 49 rogue twink during MC/BWL era .. i admit i sucked at pvp back then .. it happend
 
Harpoonz said:
Mostly because tier2 alone gives +parry, dodge, block chance and increase block values.

I just found my old hard disk with vanilla pvp video collection and uploaded one video: http://youtu.be/cF4SVkUXpCM
level 35 rogue kills +3 +4 +5 +7 +9 and "skull" level players.

Apart from occasional resists from poisons and some hits misses (dual wield gives 19% chance to miss + 5% base miss rate) i couldn't see anything wrong.
Click to expand...

dat detect traps buff, wow.
 
I'm afraid that detect trap buff will not happen. It's no longer buff but passive aura.
 
4 month later my worst fears have come true. The level difference in pvp has HUGE impact on spell resists. Red level players resist my spells like mad and they basically untouchable. Same as on any other mangos server.

Thats not how it was on retail. Old TBC video of mage killing players 8 level higher occasional resists except scene where rogue used cloak of shadows. Same mechanic was in vanilla.

Not being able to stand your own against "reds" is gamebreaking issue, since this is what vanilla leveling is all about. Atleast for me.

No server has ever fix it so i'm guess it's time to release the past and move forward. I'm done with wow.
Thanks Kronos team and players.
 
Just wanted to post this info and see what other's thought of it.

Found this source (https://web.archive.org/web/20060614015831/http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Magical_resistance)
explaining the calculations in a PVP environment.

First, there is a roll based purely on the level difference between the caster and the target. If the target is significantly higher level, the spell will usually fail completely. If the target is significantly lower level, the spell will very rarely fail. This first roll is why spell casting players have such a hard time landing spells consistantly on all monsters a few levels higher. In PvP combat, it is much less of a factor. A level 10 Mage can very often land polymorph on a level 60 player.

[TD="colspan: 3"]The general resistance data is as follows for PVP:[/TD]

Vs. +0 level player (same level),

old resist: 4%

new resist: 4%

Vs. +1 level player,

old resist: 5%

new resist: 5%

Vs. +2 level player,

old resist: 6%

new resist: 6%

Vs. +3 level player,

old resist: 25%

new resist: 13%

Vs. +4 level player,

old resist: 32%

new resist: 20%

Vs. +5 level player,

old resist: 39%

new resist: 27%

Vs. +6 level player,

old resist: 46%

new resist: 34%

[TD="colspan: 3"]...
And so on (+7% for each additional level)[/TD]



Second, there is a roll based on the level of the caster and the resistance stat of the target. Notice that the level of the target is not a factor in this roll.


Average Resistance = (Target's Resistance / (Caster's Level * 5)) * 0.75
Average resistance may be no higher than 75%. Of course, what it takes to reach 75% average resistance depends on the spellcaster's level. Against a level 1 spellcaster, it would take a resistance stat of 5. Level 20 would take 100 resistance. Level 50 would take 250 resistance. Level 60 would take 300 resistance. Level 63 would take 315 resistance.

I found a second source here (https://web.archive.org/web/20060614091913/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/resistances.html) that talks more about it

P.S Sorry about formatting I am a noob and all I did was copy paste info.
 
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Minkus said:
Just wanted to post this info and see what other's thought of it.

Found this source (https://web.archive.org/web/20060614015831/http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Magical_resistance)
explaining the calculations in a PVP environment.

First, there is a roll based purely on the level difference between the caster and the target. If the target is significantly higher level, the spell will usually fail completely. If the target is significantly lower level, the spell will very rarely fail. This first roll is why spell casting players have such a hard time landing spells consistantly on all monsters a few levels higher. In PvP combat, it is much less of a factor. A level 10 Mage can very often land polymorph on a level 60 player.

[TD="colspan: 3"]The general resistance data is as follows for PVP:[/TD]

Vs. +0 level player (same level),

old resist: 4%

new resist: 4%

Vs. +1 level player,

old resist: 5%

new resist: 5%

Vs. +2 level player,

old resist: 6%

new resist: 6%

Vs. +3 level player,

old resist: 25%

new resist: 13%

Vs. +4 level player,

old resist: 32%

new resist: 20%

Vs. +5 level player,

old resist: 39%

new resist: 27%

Vs. +6 level player,

old resist: 46%

new resist: 34%

[TD="colspan: 3"]...
And so on (+7% for each additional level)[/TD]



Second, there is a roll based on the level of the caster and the resistance stat of the target. Notice that the level of the target is not a factor in this roll.


Average Resistance = (Target's Resistance / (Caster's Level * 5)) * 0.75
Average resistance may be no higher than 75%. Of course, what it takes to reach 75% average resistance depends on the spellcaster's level. Against a level 1 spellcaster, it would take a resistance stat of 5. Level 20 would take 100 resistance. Level 50 would take 250 resistance. Level 60 would take 300 resistance. Level 63 would take 315 resistance.

I found a second source here (https://web.archive.org/web/20060614091913/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/resistances.html) that talks more about it

P.S Sorry about formatting I am a noob and all I did was copy paste info.
Click to expand...

Somehow its not true, since in this case player should have 48% spell resist chance against +8 lvl players but in the video i linked earler almost all mage spells landed successfully.
 
The video you linked earlier was TBC so I disregarded it tbh.

EDIT: Also the gear is a huge factor in TBC as well idk what the enemies are wearing / what the mage in that video is wearing (never played a mage in TBC).

EDIT2: Found a post on F-word nix where someone talked about the issues in great detail. Might explain the 48% chance you spoke about.

https://github.com/FeenixServerProject/Phoenix_1.12.1_Issue_tracker/issues/2659
 
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Minkus said:
The video you linked earlier was TBC so I disregarded it tbh.
Click to expand...
Level resists chances in pvp were exactly same in vanilla.

Minkus said:
EDIT: Also the gear is a huge factor in TBC as well idk what the enemies are wearing / what the mage in that video is wearing (never played a mage in TBC).
Click to expand...

Have you seen whole video? There is naked fight against 70 lock with only 1 resist. So gear doesn't matter much.
And i posted in this thread some videos where players kill red and even "skull' level enemies. Recorded in vanilla, look them.
 
I brought this same topic up within another thread at some point but got shot down as Harpoonz is getting now, even though he is 100% correct.

Spell resists / weapon skill levels for PVP is calculated differently than PvE. I know it's worth nothing for evidence but I do remember only having minimal spells resists in vanilla vs higher level players. Also that Weapon skill level in PvP is not calculated by your current weapon skill by calculated by what the max can be at your level.
E.G. A lvl 45 mage with a staff weapon skill of 26... swinging that staff at another player, the damage / miss / etc. is actually calculated as max weapon skill for the mage (225) regardless of what the actual skill is currently at.

Harpoonz's and any other low level vs higher level PvP videos prove this. I've looked for the formulas before on this topic but have been unsuccessful so far. Though again, these videos prove this is how the mechanic works, and so far no Private Server has been able to replicate it.
 
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