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PvP is cancer again

D

dkramer

Authorized
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Just the way it was before AV, premades farming pugs. At NA times we only had 1 warsong running yesterday and it was the same thing today, notice that it happened on saturday and sunday respectively.
Well, i experiencied it before AV, and i'm not going to pass through the same thing again. i got r7 on alliance side only pugging AB/WSG against premades all the time, i only did this because of my love for wow thinking that it could change in the future. It changed, a lot of players started to play when AV was released and we had some pvp, it was exhausting i must say, but way better then the actual scene

During my playtimes i'm used to see at least 1 full AV running = 80 players
Now it's only 1 warsong running... an awesome 6x6 where horde is a premade.
It happened 2 days in a row at NA times after all those battleground changes. The problem is that it happened on saturday and sunday respectively. I'm wondering how it'll be on week days

I hope it dont takes too long for our Staff to change this situation, pvp is legit dead and people are not playing BG anymore and probably looking for another server... like me.
 
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Hey dude !
You are right, ist back to permade dodgin again, and as you can see in Alterac Mountains, Ironforge or Orgrimar, the PvP Area is empty and whiped out.

Well, thats what happens when devs listen to the 10% hardcore premade pvpers to Change the System up and to be able to control the game again.

Maybe AV was a lot of PVE for a PVP Battleground, but it had the potential for some epic fights in it. Remember one where the Horde drove the ally out of their base and all the way up to Van in one big and on going fight. Still get goosebumps when i think about it.

And there were enough Warsong games on the side, when you got tired of AV you jumped into Warsong que, waited a few minutes and got some fun, or enraging :tongue: pug vs pug fights.
AB was dead as it is now.

Now, ist back to the premades, a few pugs that que up and as soon as they get stomped the third time in a row they leave to never be back again.


Well, i think thats the vanilla pvp expierience, but i enjoyed the AV with a lil warsong side much more.
 
Yup I knew this would happen and I said it in the other thread several times. I don't think the way AV was was any good, but this is worse. People just simply don't want to play bg's when they're only up against premades.
 
Fix pet pathing in BG's and maybe me and anyone else pissed off about how frustrating it is to have pets bugging out in BG's where your pet as a warlock means you live or die then maybe people would queue up.

Oh and fix bugged line of sight on those stumps, maybe more people again will queue when these bugs are resolved.
 
its working as expected. dev listened to a few retards and now the pvp scene is halfed or even smaller.

AV was (1.12.1) blizzlike, so there was no urgent need to make changes.
however, devs decided to do so, which is OK as there were issues. but instead of fixing the core problem - premades and blind rushing in AV - and balancing the BGs relatively, they just nerfed av to the ground so its totally worthless. unless its av holidays.
and why? just because ppl say WSG is supposed to be the honor-cow thats meant to be milked.

i dont pvp much so i couldnt care less. but its still sad to see how pvp wasnt fixed, but broke
but only time will tell how worse it actually has become, as not much time has passed yet
 
10%? More like 3 people generating 30 page long threads of garbage.
Your voice will be heard, you just have to cry loud and long enough. Even children know this.
 
Lharts said:
10%? More like 3 people generating 30 page long threads of garbage.
Your voice will be heard, you just have to cry loud and long enough. Even children know this.
Click to expand...

and make no sense at all
and opinion > fact
 
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I understand that you are frustrated having to play solo in a 10v10 battleground. But it is just that, 10v10, not 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 vs 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

Vanilla wow was ment to be played with a group of people, not alone. Thats why you cant do any end-game content on your own. Not PvE and not PVP.

I can of course only speak for myself, but the premade vs premade matches i had yesterday were the most fun i had on this server ever. I dont PVE so i dont know about that.. but for me who only PVP - sitting in AV while 20 people afk and just wait to lose and enemy just rush past me was the most boring things i've ever experienced in 7 years of vanilla wow.

It was never intended for people to solo their ways to higher ranks, and i understand that some people only pvp to have fun. Thats why i think it would be a great idea as someone pointed out earlier - to have some kind of "solo only" queue which rewards less honor so that people can still have fun while playing alone... and people who group can still enjoy the hardcore PVP with greater rewards.

Edit: I also liked what someone said in-game yesterday, on nost they did not allow raids to queue, so you could join as 5 players max. Which didnt lead to such huge stomps, eventho the most skilled groups saw consistant wins.

The thing we have to keep in mind is that; It does not have to be one way or the other, "afk AV" or "premades stomping pubs", "casual" or "hardcore". We need to find a system that allows for both premades and solo players.
 
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AsCE said:
We need to find a system that allows for both premades and solo players.
Click to expand...

It's super easy:
- solo queuers get pug match prio
- premades get premade match prio
- get rid of honor system (or otherwise make farming honor completely obsolete)

Nost did the first 2 steps, but since premades exist primarily for the purpose of farming honor faster and not for PvP, this resulted in insane amounts of dodging. Get rid of the honor incentive, and the main reason for premading will be improving match quality, so people will have no reason to dodge. Meanwhile, pugs will do their own thing.

(will never happen of course)
 
gomrund said:
It's super easy:
- solo queuers get pug match prio
- premades get premade match prio
- get rid of honor system (or otherwise make farming honor completely obsolete)

Nost did the first 2 steps, but since premades exist primarily for the purpose of farming honor faster and not for PvP, this resulted in insane amounts of dodging. Get rid of the honor incentive, and the main reason for premading will be improving match quality, so people will have no reason to dodge. Meanwhile, pugs will do their own thing.

(will never happen of course)
Click to expand...

You dont need to get rid of honor sytem, IMO the ideal would be disable group queues
but if you limit it to 5 group queue could be a great option
 
dkramer said:
You dont need to get rid of honor sytem, IMO the ideal would be disable group queues
but if you limit it to 5 group queue could be a great option
Click to expand...

I think the "max 5 player groups" thingy is a good idea actually. First i would like the to try enabling multiqueue for solo players tho.

Might give us more AB during normal days and gives pugs an option to sometimes ditch matches vs premades.
 
Multi queue is cancer. It has been done, it was bad.
Limiting queue to 5-man groups does nothing, people will snipe the queue and run as full or almost full premade 90% of the time anyway.
Disabling group queue does nothing, people will snipe the queue and run as full or almost full premade 70% of the time (that's a bit random but I managed to get 10-man premades into AV on Nost with group queue disabled... and AV queue is hard to predict accurately... so rest assured people will do it)

You do need to get rid of the honor system. Because as long as honor system is there people will prioritize gaining as much honor as possible over the quality of battlegrounds. You're coming up with such ingenious ideas on how to fix everything with one simple tweak to the queue system or another, and at the same time you completely ignore the bloody elephant in the room.
 
bracker123 said:
"i wanna play blizzlike vanilla wow,... except the parts i dont like"
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Since we don't have cross realm battlegrounds how can you call it blizzlike ?

It needs adjustments, we don't have a large community like nostalrius did and even if we have cross realm battlegrounds with k1 it wouldnt be enough.

I dont have any estatistics, but at least 50% of the population is not happy or playing pvp anymore at NA times. Yesterday there was a SINGLE warsong running, a premade horde against 6 alliances.

I dont know how can it get worse.

EDIT1 : Things changed guys at this very moment things are different then yesterday, instead of 6 alliances playing warsong,today, we have 7 alliances inside warsong gulch being smashed for a premade.
 
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dkramer said:
Since we don't have cross realm battlegrounds how can you call it blizzlike ?

It needs adjustments, we don't have a large community like nostalrius did and even if we have cross realm battlegrounds with k1 it wouldnt be enough.

I dont have any estatistics, but at least 50% of the population is not happy or playing pvp anymore at NA times. Yesterday there was a SINGLE warsong running, a premade horde against 6 alliances.

I dont know how can it get worse.
Click to expand...

Establish a duel community in front of IF and Orgrimmar.
The interest in pvp will rise and therefor people will que again. Que -» run to duel zone until que pops and repeat
 
From 17:00 to 24:00 server time we had 2-4 wsgs running simultaneously. Maybe its just the americans who dont like PVP?

Removing the honorsystem would turn this server into a fun-server.

You can say "people would still get premades going 70% of te time but it would not change anything. Going from 100 to 70 is the definition of change.

I dont think there is any definite solution to make premades impossible, and even if there was then i would not ageee that its the solution we are looking for.
 
bracker123 said:
"i wanna play blizzlike vanilla wow,... except the parts i dont like"
Click to expand...

Personally I don't care :p But it's quite amazing how people take the fundamentally broken vanilla PvP system and want to keep it untouched and somehow at the same time make it functional. If you told them that once the cake is eaten, it's gone, they wouldn't believe you.

I'm just saying what is broken and what needs to change so that the broken parts stop being broken. It's simple.
And of course AsCE is right - ditching honor system would turn the server into a funserver, so it won't happen.

Face it - if you deliberately want a blizzlike vanilla PvP system, then you want a system that's garbage. Fix things in it ("funserver" heh) or accept that it's garbage by definition.
 
AsCE said:
From 17:00 to 24:00 server time we had 2-4 wsgs running simultaneously. Maybe its just the americans who dont like PVP?


I dont think there is any definite solution to make premades impossible, and even if there was then i would not ageee that its the solution we are looking for.
Click to expand...

Being farmed gy/afking/leaving/quitting if you call this pvp.............


Before this changes everytime i queued at NA times we had AT LEAST 1 full AV, thats more then 4x more people playing and pvping in fact.

I dont know why people keep saying "blizzlike... blizzlike....blizzlike..." Kronos is not blizzlike.
Vanilla blizzlike pvp requires cross realm battlegrounds, we don't have it.

This changes happened just a few days ago and pvp is almost dead at NA times(it was literally dead for a couple of minutes with 0 bg's running)
It'll continue to die slowly at EU times too.
I think people on K1 are having the same problem.

It's sad, because we'll lose a lot of real vanilla players, people are already only raid logging.
 
AV on K2 is officially gone. Queue Unavailable :D Mass WSG spamming forever now ?

Edit: It opened in the evining.
 
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If retail wow has taught us anything it is that "more people" does not equal "better". That is why we are playing vanilla atm and not Legion.

It is not better to have honor be something that is handed out in abundance to everyone, even people who afk or lose on purpose. Even if it would make everyone on the server PVP.

I'm going to play my "If everyone could solo farm BWL you would probably want that changed aswell"-card one more time.

Now this doesnt mean PVP should be boring to play solo, and i agree that there is a problem. But ruining pvp for players who enjoy group pvp, or handing out free honor to everyone should not be the solution you aim for.
 
Yes, and Nef should be 7 times harder when done with 37 people instead of a full raid. It's only fair because there are those dedicated 40man raids out there and we shouldn't ruin it for them :)
 
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