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    TwinStar team

Other Sudden Buff of Bosses in Raids?

Excy

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Joined
Feb 27, 2015
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25
#1
Hello guys,

After the hiccup the server had there seems to be some "slight" unannounced changed in some bosses in certain raids.

For example, on last thursday's Vanguard's BWL we noticed that whelps in Suppression Room did a lot more damage and Broodlord Lashlayer's aggro range was increased significantly (and perhaps his damage too). Today, on my Molten Core PuG we noticed that Garr adds just nearly instantly killed our add-tank, something that was never ever noticed before. On top of that, I recently did a Zul'Gurub as a tank with 426 defense (pre-raid bis and some raid gear) and I was getting non-crush non-crit hits for ~2k and sometimes ~3k on some bosses. This was not common, I spoke to some people from other guilds and they also have noticed the same, mostly regarding the BWL part.

Be honest with us, did you change something? Was it intended?! If so, why didn't you tell us anything?


Regards,
Excy
 

Cpstabber

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Joined
Nov 17, 2014
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27
Location
East Coast, NA
#2
Interesting. How much was each whelp hitting you for?

Please note if this is with Force of Will procced and Blessing of Sant or stone totem.

In 2005 and on Nost with FoW and BoS up at the same time they would hit for about 8-15 damage each with full T2 and bulwark shield. If I didn't have BoS, and FoW hasn't procced yet, and no healer armor proc buffs, I'd get hit for closer to 75-83.


Your add tank for Garr, many people immolate dispellers did you have? If you are doing the 1 tank, tank add adds/zerg boss strat, you should have at least 4 people dedicated to only taking immolate off, another 5-6 heals on the off tank, only need 2 heals to keep up Garr tank if all adds are alive.

Broodlord, where are you aggroing from? Even on retail in 2005, the second you put your character in LoS of him from the last safe alcove, he will aggro, even a couple yards back from where you come from. Pretty much anything on the side of the last suppressor where you can pull adds, if you are near that and in sight of boss, it will pull.


While I am not sure what it was like prior to this possible silent-buff, ^ is expected behavior in said situations.
 

Hotslice

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Aug 11, 2015
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28
#3
We noticed the same changes. Tanks said Felguards in BWL were hitting harder also.

While I don't mind changes to make the difficulty more "blizzlike", I just wish there would have been an announcement of some kind. Having Broodlord surprise aggro on us was some kind of "fun"...
 
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
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#4
Everything is hitting harder.

Whelps were hitting our cloth for well over 500, close to 600 damage.

I in full mail armor with shield was getting hit for 350. As you can see in this video a rogue in mostly t1 leather is getting hit for 250, significantly less than what I was getting hit for. 2005 old ass Onslaught Broodlord kill.
 
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Bazzil

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Joined
Jan 25, 2016
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182
#6
Monster damage has been reworked in all raid instances. The new values are in our judgement closer to the blizzlike values than the ones previously used.

We're always looking to improve and correct any mistakes, and typing numbers for hundreds of mobs it can obviously happen that a mistake slips in - so if you experience something abnormal feel free to report it.

That being said, it cannot be stressed enough that when reporting these cases, you have to be mindful of the reporting-process (=template) that we ask that you follow. We cannot look into issues based on personal anecdotes. We will not look into issues based on "suspicion" - you have to take the first step and find a source that support your case (like the one posted by Fei would be a source).

In the case of the Blackwing Lair whelps, they have a damage range of 311 - 413 in our database (before armor). If these numbers dont reflect the damage you take in-game, then please show us a screenshot of this and we'll look into it.
 
Joined
May 22, 2015
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481
#8
Whelps used to hit me for around 30 damage before. So if my armor damage reduction is 60%, that means their original damage was around 30/0.4 = 75 damage. Fei says a rogue was being hit for 250 in the video he linked from retail. So how can 75 times a number between 0 and 1 be equal to 250...


Conclusion: whelps on Kronos used to do way less damage than they should and current numbers are probably correct.
 
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
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145
#9
Kronos whelps definitely were wrong in the past. But at the same time, there are more whelps in the Kronos suppression room than retail. This new value is closer to retail but it's either too high or armor/defense isnt being applied correctly. Our tanks reported taking last damage when switching to DPS gear, we will go through the combat logs/vod later.
 

Peasemold

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Joined
Apr 12, 2015
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241
#10
A list of what is changed and what isn't would be nice. Maybe also announcing such sweeping changes and not waiting for raids to find their old strategies no longer work as well and having people needlessly die on farm content because of an unexpected change?

Combined with the awful latency this stealth fix is not welcomed by me at all. Turned a usual hour raid into a waste of time. The very least you could do is fucking mention things like this before a forum thread has to be created.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
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149
#11
Prerty much what Peasemold said, what is the bug tracker for if changes as inportant as these don't show up there?

Gesendet von meinem LG-D620 mit Tapatalk
 

PESHKIRA

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May 31, 2016
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#13
Peasemold might be a filthy orc rogue that had crusader enchant on his perditions blade once upon a time but he is correct.

About the numbers,450 normal hit from a whelp on a geared hunter does not sound normal whatsoever.The spawn rate is buffed aswell.And when someone in the posts above speak of retail like dmg of 250 on rogue,the dmg i posted above is SO much out of place!

Admittedly most of the old guard guilds will be up to the challenge but there are greenhorn guilds out there aswell.These changes will be a hard challenge for the new raiders.

For instance,i was raiding with alt,progressing on Razorgore.The dragonkin do absurd amounts of damage,while the orcs seem to do the old numbers.The spawn rate of orcs seems to be the old one,while dragonkin spawn twice as fast.

Such changes should not have been put in effect so easily.I suggest you reconsider your decisions and the effects they have over the WHOLE raiding side of the game.

PS:and Onyxia has not been affected but such buffs as far as i can see.
 
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Bazzil

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Joined
Jan 25, 2016
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182
#14
Raid Logs from september 20, 2006:
http://oblistats.free.fr/stats/wws-0920-2127/corruptedbluewhelp.html
http://oblistats.free.fr/stats/wws-0920-2127/corruptedbronzewhelp.html
http://oblistats.free.fr/stats/wws-0920-2127/corruptedgreenwhelp.html
http://oblistats.free.fr/stats/wws-0920-2127/corruptedredwhelp.html

These whelps should be hitting up to 354 on cloth-geared players (roughly 15% armor reduction) and there's been a crit observed at 680. The damage we have set to them is 311 - 413 before armor.

The real problem of the whelps is not their damage, but their numbers which is a result from an incorrect respawn timer. The damage of the whelps have been restored to their previous amount (this should already be live) until we've looked into the respawn timer.

We also discovered a typo when setting the damage for the death talon dragonspawn (razorgore dragonkin) which means they deal roughly 30% more damage than we intended. This will also be fixed. After noticing this i double checked all the monsters, to find that the death talon dragonspawn was the only monster with unintentional numbers.

Thanks for your feedback. Keep calm
 
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Joined
May 22, 2015
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481
#15
Peasemold might be a filthy orc rogue that had crusader enchant on his perditions blade once upon a time but he is correct.
Oh no you didn't...

This is now a theorycrafting thread where we discuss +5 damage versus Crusader on daggers.

Crusader gives you +100 str which is 100 AP for a rogue without any world buffs or blessing of kings that scale strength up. Since he is horde, let's keep kings and world buffs out of the equation. Crusader has 1 PPM rate, but since this is vanilla and PPM depends only on the weapon's own speed, not your character's attack speed after haste is applied, and since rogues deal twice more attacks when you count slice & dice and all the sinister strikes and eviscerates, that PPM is at least 2. So on average you get Crusader twice per minute. It lasts 15 seconds so on average it's up at most 30 seconds per minute, which is 50% uptime. Speaking in average again, that cuts the AP contribution in half, so you end up with Crusader giving an orc rogue roughly 50 AP buff over a time course of a minute. 50 AP / 14 = 3.57 DPS which results in 3.57 * 1.8 = 6.42 weapon damage from a single Crusader buff, when distributed uniformly over a minute. Now if you also count that Crusader stacks double if you have it on both weapons and since off-hand can only do auto-attacks (let's assume that slice and dice speedup cancels out the misses and dodges), you gain additional roughly 3.21 weapon damage from the off-hand.

So you're talking about 5 weapon damage (weapon damage enchantment) versus 10 weapon damage (double crusaders).

@Bazzil Please tell us when the damage is scaled up again for the whelps.
 

Peasemold

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Apr 12, 2015
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241
#16
Let me be clear, increasing damage values to be more accurate is great. The manner in which it was applied was not so great.

So as long as the messaging is clear and prompt there is virtually no issue.

Also, yeah fuck you PESHKIRA.
 

PESHKIRA

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May 31, 2016
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#17
Thanks for the reply bazzil,im happy that this thread is of help to the community.But once more as peasemold says PLEASE anounce such changes in the raids with enough time for the raiders to prepare themselves mentally.And as a sidenote,what about spawnrates of dragonkin the dmg of garr's adds and so on,did you check on those aswell?Im just trying to confirm things here.

Thank you for the theory crafting black but i simply enjoy teasing him.Your calculations may or may not be correct i CBA thinking right now.But now that i think of it,Peasemold was fond of pvp when he first got that dagger,and only after he switched to 5dmg.So figure it out you two.

Peasemold your avatar is very appropriate.
 
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Peasemold

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Joined
Apr 12, 2015
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241
#19
I haven't used daggers for raids in months and I've never been fond of PvP. I don't even know who PESHKIRA is.
 

Bazzil

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Joined
Jan 25, 2016
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182
#20
heads up: world dragons damage have been reduced, kazzak damage increased. "elites" in the surrounding world boss locations have been buffed.

enjoy
 
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