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Paladin Retribution Paladin

Psojed said:
If you want another button to press between swings
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So I don't understand whats the problem with Consecration Rank 1 spam if everything is alright and there is 32% spell power coefficient. With 300 SP I can get 20 dps boost for each enemy + most of the time there is still enough mana resources from JoW, mana potions and runes to spam the highest rank anyways.
 
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I played Retribution Paladin for years, I played WoW since it came out all the way until WotLK. During vanilla, I ended up with purple PvP set with GM Claymore and I finished TBC with Arena 2 gear. And my knowledge of paladin over the years is - nobody really wants you to play as retribution. If you play ret, you will be going against odds, prejudice, expectations and requirements and that's hard to beat. Paladin is the most awesome in versatility, he can be useful in any scenario and becomes a backbone of almost any raid. A raid with a Paladin in every group is a happy raid. Holy paladin, that is. When I wanted to play ret in PvE, I had to migrate to Karazhan, a new TBC server back then, make my own guild, help others get to 70 and literally begin raiding with my own guild. Nobody disputed my place there. It took a lot to dominate PvP and I found out that you have to out-skill that other person by a big margin. With ret, you make one error, one bad call, you get oom too fast, you waste your cooldowns, you miss the dmg burst window allowing the target to heal, run or hide, when you're already out of resources, then they strike with all they have and you're done.

It can be done, but nobody expects you to, and nobody really cares. You are a support class, and your role is to help others achieve greater results. Being a ret paladin means being selfish and you have to outweigh that with something else, to become viable member of the team. I knew Eldo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u80b2Qx6m3A) and I've seen Eso in action (https://vimeo.com/6650248) and as good as they were in Ret, they would've been much better off helping the raid as holy pals.
 
I'm still convinced that a ret paladin who knows when to heal a bit, cleanse, and who supports with Blessing of America or Protection is a great asset to any group, especially in pvp.

Shoutout to Strombald.
 
Everyone Blackmail "Judgement of Command" including Psojed but:
Consecration 565 mana = 384 damage
Judgement of Command 260 mana (benediction included and reseal included) = 180 damage average = (with same amount of mana as Consecration it will do) 360 damage average that can crit and do 720 damage + proc Vengeance + proc Weapon Ench/Weapon/Trinket etc etc
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Because of logic....
 
mcsoap said:
I played Retribution Paladin for years, I played WoW since it came out all the way until WotLK. During vanilla, I ended up with purple PvP set with GM Claymore and I finished TBC with Arena 2 gear. And my knowledge of paladin over the years is - nobody really wants you to play as retribution. If you play ret, you will be going against odds, prejudice, expectations and requirements and that's hard to beat. Paladin is the most awesome in versatility, he can be useful in any scenario and becomes a backbone of almost any raid. A raid with a Paladin in every group is a happy raid. Holy paladin, that is. When I wanted to play ret in PvE, I had to migrate to Karazhan, a new TBC server back then, make my own guild, help others get to 70 and literally begin raiding with my own guild. Nobody disputed my place there. It took a lot to dominate PvP and I found out that you have to out-skill that other person by a big margin. With ret, you make one error, one bad call, you get oom too fast, you waste your cooldowns, you miss the dmg burst window allowing the target to heal, run or hide, when you're already out of resources, then they strike with all they have and you're done.

It can be done, but nobody expects you to, and nobody really cares. You are a support class, and your role is to help others achieve greater results. Being a ret paladin means being selfish and you have to outweigh that with something else, to become viable member of the team. I knew Eldo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u80b2Qx6m3A) and I've seen Eso in action (https://vimeo.com/6650248) and as good as they were in Ret, they would've been much better off helping the raid as holy pals.
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You post a video of a fight where the ret paladin was 5th in dps behind only rogues and say they would have been better off as holy? Hmmk.
 
killerduki said:
Everyone Blackmail "Judgement of Command" including Psojed but:

Because of logic....
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Did somebody in this thread really say that Judgment of Command should not be part of a DPS rotation? I can't believe it as it can crit pretty high and also causes Vengeance procs. I always use it on CD if I'm not too low on mana.
 
Judgement of Command should always be part of rotation. If you want to drop something, then it should be Consecration since it uses so much mana for ~80-90 dps with flask of supreme power and all.
 
Nope, nobody said anything against using judgement. At this point, killerduki is just invading every thread in the paladin forum and posts nonsense together with mentioning my nickname.

@mcsoap: if your raid is overflowing with dedicated healers, it's much better having a ret paladin switch to DPS and deal his 250-500 DPS rather than having extra healer with no real use. Ret can give out blessings the same way a holy paladin does. Also Cephas pointed it out pretty well.
 
Psojed said:
Nope, nobody said anything against using judgement. At this point, killerduki is just invading every thread in the paladin forum and posts nonsense together with mentioning my nickname.

@mcsoap: if your raid is overflowing with dedicated healers, it's much better having a ret paladin switch to DPS and deal his 250-500 DPS rather than having extra healer with no real use. Ret can give out blessings the same way a holy paladin does. Also Cephas pointed it out pretty well.
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Nope, nobody said anything against using judgement. At this point, killerduki is just invading every thread in the paladin forum and posts nonsense together with mentioning my nickname.
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http://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread...t-spec-for-PvP?p=802438&viewfull=1#post802438

Psojed


Seal of Command rank 1 has identical damage as rank 5. Using higher ranks brings 0 bonus damage to your Seal damage. Judgement's damage is so low that it's not worth using until you have decent spell damage gear,
 
In case you are getting lost between spamming different topics killerduki, the post you quoted was never posted in this thread. It is a reply to player asking why I recommend using rank 1 SoC instead of rank 5 SoC in PvP.

Also, you should read the whole response, not just the part you want to read.

Aldebaran said:
But I don't get what you mean with using SoComm Rank 1 and Rank 5. Hm.. the only reason I come up is against low hp targets and weaker opponents? When we almost won the fight but we have to refresh our SoComm to finish the job?
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Psojed said:
Seal of Command rank 1 has identical damage as rank 5. Using higher ranks brings 0 bonus damage to your Seal damage. Judgement's damage is so low that it's not worth using until you have decent spell damage gear, at which point you also have over 5k mana and you can use r5 at will. Plus, the only times you really want to judge r5 is during a stun to get the juicy 1k+ crits, so you Seal r5->judge->reSeal r1 when needed and only use r1 to conserve mana.
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Psojed said:
Nope, nobody said anything against using judgement. At this point, killerduki is just invading every thread in the paladin forum and posts nonsense together with mentioning my nickname.

@mcsoap: if your raid is overflowing with dedicated healers, it's much better having a ret paladin switch to DPS and deal his 250-500 DPS rather than having extra healer with no real use. Ret can give out blessings the same way a holy paladin does. Also Cephas pointed it out pretty well.
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In my memory I can't remember a single case where raid would be like "we have enough healers, we can use some ret paladins". Not a single time.
 
mcsoap said:
In my memory I can't remember a single case where raid would be like "we have enough healers, we can use some ret paladins". Not a single time.
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When I heal in BWL, maybe in 1-2 pulls does my healing actually make a difference. So why not spec ret and DPS for 90% of the time to help finish raid sooner?
 
Retri Tree was alot better before for PVE and Protection Tree was BIS for PVP.
Paladins was a true "buffer" haha

TALENT.jpg

Old talent tree that i liked. 1 Paladin was retri and buffed kings :D

But for the OP, all hybrid classes works!
Just give it some effort haha
We have Tf (feral druid) who pushes 750+ dps!
When AQ comes out, no doubt that a paladin that mix their gear with 2.5 will push 700 aswell, same with BOOMKINS!
 
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I was actually looking for the old talent tree which contained the "holy 11".
5/5 Spiritual Focus, 5/5 Illumination, Divine Favor. Easily enough to heal well!

Since the old talent calc websites went down I failed to find one which enables you to switch to the old versions. :(
 
I absolutely agree retribution is fun, and can be helpful in dungeon on raid, I played retribution paladin for years, in vanilla and TBC and I dare to say I was pretty successful with it (Arena T2 + Deep Thunder and Stormherald later), so no damage done here. But when I rolled paladin on Kronos, I went straight holy. It's just more likely the guild will make better use of a holy paladin. If you're ret and the guild is fine with it, then by all means do what you want. All I'm saying is I just gave up on convincing everyone around me that ret can be a viable member of the raid. Nobody disputes anything when I show up as holy and I like it that way.
 
I do not understand how people have to sit and explain to grown ass people why paladins are worthy and how defense is useful in a fighting..... a fighting game wher you avoid dying, try to kill, and not to die oneself. If your character can not pump out top damage your faith in its might is stillborn instantly?

Why does a skillfull paladin even with worse gear very very often win over a strong warrior in 1vs1 arms or prot vs ret or prot? The warrior got more damage, he got more aggressive buffs. Hmmmm, can you figure it out for yourself?

Paladins got a much stronger defense because he can heal himself, that wins it every time, why? Defense is immensly powerful, wait a minute and let us observe, the longer a fight of aggressive fighter vs defensive fighter lasts, the more the defensive one wins, aggression is explosive and awe inspiring and flashyyy but burns out fast, do not get distracted by the flash, stick to the solid basic wisdom of defense, over time defensive fighter wins and still stands and taunt you "Come at me, try to break me"


Paladins is the most unique class because its strength lies in defense, even if most people play the Paladin as a attacking force.

Focus on outlasting and not outbursting, let your decent dmg hits creep up on the wild aggressive-focused "barbarians", he can not take it but you can
 
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Doesn't help much when a glass cannon mage one-shots you because your bubble isn't up. Your points are valid if the gear difference isn't too high. But when the gap is too great it is becoming difficult.
 
Well, yes naturally, one can not fight back if one is dead before one can react, or big advantage difference, like if a child backstabs a 300 pound bodybuilder in the right place with strong poison and then run away the child will be able to most likely kill the man.
Like Napoleon Bonaparte once said "Ability is nothing without opportunity"

Maybe paladin can survive in some pity way, could potentially resist some or full damage with auras or/and lay on hands even if it would drain all mana and the fight after that would still be unfavourable.


It is the delicious fun and cheesyness of vanilla wow that makes it so good and maybe a bit "mysterious" and challenging, one could come back with a two hander fully loaded reckoning and unload on someone smacking them down with a single shot, could one call it "hardcore" because only few can survive these things? Maybe just quirky
 
Paladin "DPS" is viable in the same way that Priest and Moonkin "DPS" is viable: You're only there to buff the real DPS.

Paladin will be given a Nightfall and told to keep judging wisdom on the boss and maybe throw a heal once in a while. That's about it.

In PvP however, you're much better off going Prot or Holy, because of Reckoning, and healing ability. But still, Paladin is a hybrid; you can do some decent damage in PvP even if you're Holy specced. Don't think that just because you're Holy, all you can do is heal.
 
Reckoning really sucks for pvp unless you do alot of wpvp and stack charges from a mob before hand. Trying to stack charges by /sitting while a player or 2 is already attacking you means your gonna have a bad time if they are geared even a little. And getting charges the normal way isn't really worth it as some classes may never even crit you once(spirest for example)

going traditional ret is better overall for damage and utility in pvp i say.
 
SuperomegaOP said:
Reckoning really sucks for pvp
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It is funny especially against rogues though. Other than that I would not go for Reckoning as well for PvP. The second stun you get with Repentance is far more useful and versatile. I even would recommend it for paladins that want to focus on support and healing only. Putting the leftover 20 points into holy is usually enough for healing. Even though Divine Favor is such a neat spell as well.
 
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