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Assorted PvP-related suggestions aka sachi's pvp wishlist

NotSachi

Authorized
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Hello, these are some suggestions I would like to make.

1) Create a secondary queue system just for premade versus premade games.

First of all, no, I am not asking to remove premades from the current queue system. The queue system as it is can stay exactly as it is right now. If people want to group there to farm honor that is fine, and if people want to group to snipe premades that is also fine.

What I would like to see however is, when both factions are communicating, and have a full group, and are willing to play against one another, give them the option to queue directly into each other through a secondary queues system which would serve for just that. As it is right now, we often have to sift through pug games before we get matched up against each other, and then people have to go, or lose interest, and we have to replace people, or we have to wait for deserters to wear off etc... Basically a lot of time is wasted and we get to play maybe 1 or 2 games in a 3 hour window. An alternate queue system only for full 10v10 or 15v15 groups, that also ignores deserter maybe, would help this and could also maybe help develop some more competitive premade v premade scene.

2) Allow engineering reflectors to reflect projectiles which are already mid-air

Having it behave like this would raise the skill ceiling for both the caster and the person using the reflector. The caster has to be much more mindful of how they use their instant spells instead of a mindless max range 3k nuke. As for the person reflecting, the shorter the distance, the more his reaction time is rewarded.

3) Put permanent emissaries where people can queue up for all 3 battlegrounds in more populous areas in cities

For example, next to Orgrimar bank, or next to ironforge bridge, in the stormwind trade square... Consider it a social experiment of sorts. For casual PvPers it changes the thought process of queuing up for PvP from "oh, I want to pvp, let me go out of my way all the way the battleground masters to queue up" to - at the sight of the battleground emisaries while they are doing their business in town - "oh hey, I guess I could pvp". I think more people might end up joining PvP this way. Or it might not change anything at all... but trying it out does no harm whatsoever.

4) Award some minimal monetary compensation for turning in 3 battleground marks

I guess this has been suggested before and turned down, but even so, I would like you to reconsider it. It can really make a difference in motivation for casual PvPers. If they just lost 3 games in a a row queuing into a premade, at least they got SOMETHING out of it. And it is also nice for the people who EXLUSIVELY log in to PvP. It gives them some source of income to buy some basic consumes like poisons or candles or whatever. IT could honestly be as minimal as 50s per 3 marks, and probably max 2g before it would start ruining the economy.

5) Allow multi queue, but only for WSG+AV or AB+AV (so not for WSG+AB)

There is currently a thread up already on this topic, but since I am making this thread, I might as well add this. By solving it like this, you prevent people jumping between WSG and AB to dodge, or people leaving half empty games behind, however you still give people to option to maybe start a on-going AV game on the server outside the weekend. While I don't personally like AV, it has a very positive influence on the player pool for rankers and it's all around popular among vanilla players for some reason. I guess you wouldn't get AB games outside the weekend, but I guess this could be some sort of golden middle road?

6) Consider some sort of permanent reward for people who obtain high ranks (11+)

As content progresses, there is less and less incentive to commit to ranking, however, ranking does help keep PvP scene alive. I haven't really fleshed out this idea much, but stuff I am thinking of is for example giving permanent access to rank 6 potions, or allowing a combination of rank11+x thousand amount of HK's to purchase r12 and r13 gear, an additional 5% discount at vendors... stuff like that, nothing big, but something that can help generate incentive for rankers in the future, and that makes ex-rankers a bit happy too x)


That's all I guess. I guess the commentary will come that none of these are blizzlike, but this server has already deliberately taken a number of non-blizzlike changes, some for convenience like respec costs, and others that actually force a more blizzlike experience like not allowing to skip AQ trash. I dont feel like any of these suggestions I made are really out of line with that
 
7) Fix your invisible WSG flag

https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=9994

8) Make a clear list of jumps that are allowed and what not

currently there is no clear list of what you are allowed to do and what not. Im willing to show out the stuff that the GM/testers most likely have missed and to contribute on fair set of rules. Anyone can do it? - Allow it (even if it takes skill). Only class/race can do it - Ban it!


and to Sachi: Altho every single reflect is doable atm with prediction and good timing, I do agree that allowing mid air reflects would make the game more interesting. Script wise I'm not so sure this would be the easiest of the "fixes".
 
1) That would be really nice. Keep normal NPCs where you queue at and normal queue system which allows you to pug v pug, premade v pug, premade v premade, whatever, but add 1 extra which would automatically matchmake 10v10 and 15v15 groups together when we wanna have such games.. As Sachi said, often we're just unlucky to get premade games going even when both sides have groups and wanna play against each other, simply because both teams getting matched with pugs game after game. You could put this NPC in some basement or something so it's not confused with regular BG NPCs by people who just wanna use regular queue system..

2) Would be cool, but it's never going to happen. Had this feature on Feenix and it really increased PvP quality, significantly more then on Kronos. People actually had to think about their game and improve and not just full mongoloid 40 yard PoM Pyro or Death Coil and win.

3) Should be done, put permanent emissaries around the usual AFK places, it will boost BG activity for sure. Every time emissaries pass through IF commons during the weekends I queue up for BGs even if I didnt think of PvPing at the moment. They just ring some bell to queue up for a BG and if people look at them constantly, they gonna queue up more too.

4) I like it, but I already see Blizzlike nerds getting all cracked up about ppl in BGs earning 2g in 20 minutes of WSG, even though some of them hold monopoly on every single fucking thing that brings money and have more gold then they'll ever be able to spend.

5 & 6) I like these as they are, blizzlike. R13/14 isn't about getting shittion of kills, but enduring the agony of playing 10+ hours a day for 3 months and that's why they are so rewarding. If it was like this, everyone would be in R13 after just 1 year of casual PvPing, 3-4-5 BGs a day. Not to mention BGs would become HK farmfest rather then a game based on objectives. They should allow you to buy stuff that require specific rank if you were that rank in the past though..
As for double queue, WSG or AB + AV, it's not a bad idea, but it wouldn't really work out on Kronos.. Having AV going would probably mean not enough people for WSG or AB and anyone who actually wanna PvP would rather play those 2 then AV.
 
1) Create a secondary queue system just for premade versus premade games.
Yes please, or something that allows premades to face eachother more easily. I think the majority of current pvp playerbase would consider this a massive improvement, pugs and premades alike.

2) Allow engineering reflectors to reflect projectiles which are already mid-air
With Naxx around the corner caster damage is gonna be absurd, good suggestion, implementation would certainly result in skillcap being increased. Would also add cloaking device to the list of similar behaviour.

I liked the rest of the suggestions too and I guess they have been discussed in some forms on other threads. The 2 suggestions mentioned above would be the biggest improvements imo. Would certainly vote for all of these!

Ps. duel cd reset
 
could add a command like /wargame player bg; they'd have to remove honor gains/marks from those games though
so /wargame steve warsong when you have 10 players in your grp would challenge steve's grp to a warsong gulch (if they also have 10 obv)
who gives a fuck though vanilla pvp is garbage u guys need to grow up

- - - Updated - - -

Ps. duel cd reset
too easily abusable, that's some funserver shit
 
2) Would be cool, but it's never going to happen. Had this feature on Feenix and it really increased PvP quality, significantly more then on Kronos. People actually had to think about their game and improve and not just full mongoloid 40 yard PoM Pyro or Death Coil and win.
With midair spells the trinket user would be "just full mongoloid 40 yard PoM Pyro or Death Coil" reflect. How is that better lol.
Right now you have to anticipate which is harder to do then react to a traveling spell.

Hold your horses, engi is op enough as is.
 
1) Create a secondary queue system just for premade versus premade games.
See suggestion 5.

However:
What I would like to see however is, when both factions are communicating...
Cannot disagree more. You have no multi-faction chat channels, you cannot send letters to another faction. You are not supposed to communicate with another faction.

2) Allow engineering reflectors to reflect projectiles which are already mid-air
First: good idea. Second: it should not be implemented.
Reason: latency. Those who have better connection will have extremelly large advantage over those who lag for just a second or even less.

3) Put permanent emissaries where people can queue up for all 3 battlegrounds in more populous areas in cities
Not blizzlike.

Stop being lazy. There are enough battlemasters in game. Every capital city has them, and during PvP weekends you have more of them. It's fine as it is.

4) Award some minimal monetary compensation for turning in 3 battleground marks
If it's not there, it was probably intended to be that way. Fine as it is.

5) Allow multi queue, but only for WSG+AV or AB+AV (so not for WSG+AB)
I suppose you refer to Time to introduce Multique again topic.

My suggestion: separate premaids from PUGs. Details are in the referenced topic.
Reason: premade against PUG is most often not PvP at all. It's similar to 'ganking' low levels. There is hardly a chance they can do anything. It may be good for premades in terms of awards, but it has too much negative influence on battlegrounds PvP overall.

Regarding to multiqueue itself (and not to quality of PvP in general): I don't mind multi-queue, as long as there are always substitutes for those who leave during a battle.

6) Consider some sort of permanent reward for people who obtain high ranks (11+)
If it's not there, it was probably intended to be that way. Fine as it is.


...Who gives a f**k though vanilla pvp is garbage u guys need to grow up.
People come here because of that classic PvP experience, too.
 
There are more people on Kronos who want the Desolace caravan quests to work than these pvp quality of life updates to happen, sadly.
Those who have better connection will have extremelly large advantage over those who lag for just a second or even less.
Being able to reflect midair gives more time to react and time their reflectors for those playing with higher latency.
 
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Well then don't be a bad with 30 yards coil opener.. These were suggestions how to *increase PvP quaility*, not the other way around. You keep it as it is and nothing changes, you apply this change and most certainly every mage and warlock will constantly try to improve. Trying to bait reflector with some other spells before using your overkill ability (coil, pompyro), reducing distance before using those in order to shorten opponents reaction time etc, etc.. All those would make people step up their game instead of casting undeniable oneshots from 40 yards while backpedaling and having the luxury to play with half brain turned off.
 
5 & 6) I like these as they are, blizzlike. R13/14 isn't about getting shittion of kills, but enduring the agony of playing 10+ hours a day for 3 months and that's why they are so rewarding. If it was like this, everyone would be in R13 after just 1 year of casual PvPing, 3-4-5 BGs a day. Not to mention BGs would become HK farmfest rather then a game based on objectives. They should allow you to buy stuff that require specific rank if you were that rank in the past though..
Yeah, I considered that, I guess it's probably the most controversial suggestion. I still think it's an idea worth exploring as long as it is made foolproof to abuse.

To be honest, I really just don't wanna lose access to r6 pots (._.) I mean, surely grinding to rank 14 deserves some lifetime access to that.



I need to pull one out of ned's book for this:

86bda33e31.jpg
 
Well yea I think they should allow you to buy anything you want as long as your "Highest Rank" meets the requirements.
 
too easily abusable, that's some funserver shit

Kronos is already a funserver quit using this argument.

The duel cdreset has been discussed before and some abuse prevention mechanic definitely needs to be implemented with it, just like with many of the other suggestions.
https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthrea...f-Kronos-1-PvP?p=833464&viewfull=1#post833464

We all want a great vanilla experience thats why we are here. Nothing wrong with it being a slightly improved version of the original one, I dont see too many complaining about 5g respec cost.
 
Kronos is already a funserver quit using this argument.

The duel cdreset has been discussed before and some abuse prevention mechanic definitely needs to be implemented with it, just like with many of the other suggestions.
https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthrea...f-Kronos-1-PvP?p=833464&viewfull=1#post833464

We all want a great vanilla experience thats why we are here. Nothing wrong with it being a slightly improved version of the original one, I dont see too many complaining about 5g respec cost.
true, windfury got nerfed to be non-blizzlike because it was deemed too overpowered by the alliance faction, so maybe we can get some more funserver shit
 
I would like to make a very importent suggestion



8ppDfod.jpg


Kronos please add more of these paintings in-game.

Mkaytybb
 
Well then don't be a bad with 30 yards coil opener..
exhibit A. you run into fr to get flag. you run into fr to get flag.

how it is now:
atm you have to preventively pop it in order to make it out alive and not get coiled.

how you want it:
you can spare the trinket until the need arises making it alot more powerfull and easier for you to utilize.

basically you are saying that others are bad while wanting to make the game easier for (engineers) you.

These were suggestions how to *increase PvP quaility*, not the other way around
increase "quality" (how ever you Sarei defines it of course) for whom and how?

apply this change and most certainly every mage and warlock will constantly try to improve.
i totally see that happening for sure


if you didn't play on a bugged realm before that had this implementation of the trinkets we wouldn't even have this discussion. get over it.

while you are add it, let shadowmeld and invis trinket make me dodge spells. cause reasons. its improves pvp quality. for me.

are you still under the impressions that everyone and their grandma has to play and enjoy the game the way you do?
 
Even in our blizzlike (=worse than other private servers ) version of the engineering trinkets, they are still strong trinkets that you are using all the time. Don't make engineering stuff have 0% chance to backfire either, and don't remove the knockdown from engineering helmet. There's a reason why these gadgets can backfire. They are game-changing (speaking of warsong gulch atleast) items and any pvper knows that he needs to have engineering despite all of these deficiencies with the devices, so don't get it twisted that they ought to be made even stronger.
 
Don't go full Noktyn about engi, man.

Exhibit A: I'm a warlock in fr. I see druid jump down and pop reflector. I wait a few seconds for the reflector to wear off before I fear/coil him. I can even tidal/nade him if necessary.

Exhibit B: I'm a warlock in fr. I see a druid jump down, and he is not going to pop his reflector until I cast something on him as he knows he can just reflect the coil midair, so I'll need to either try and fake the reflector, or force it (hopefully so that he's on gcd so he can't cover the debuff on me) and devour the fear off myself, nade/tidal him if needed and then fear again.

From what I've seen the general consensus seems to be that the exhibit 'B', where you can stealth/meld/cloak projectiles and reflect midair is found more appealing by most pvp oriented players, hence requests like this keep popping up now and then. Fact is, the person who started this thread didn't even play on a server with bugged midair reflects, he's just seen it in movies and already finds it exciting enough of an idea to gun for, even without have first-hand experience of it. Possibly because it looks cool, maybe because it feels to make the game more interesting. As ahlaundog said, vanilla pvp isn't amazing at all, but small improvements like this can make it more interesting, or so most of the people I've played with/against in the last six years seem to think.

I doubt that Kronos will change how the engineering gadgets work, at least for this iteration of the server. But the reason isn't that people don't want it. It won't happen due to limited developer time and hesitation over bringing in major unblizzlike mechanics just to appeal to a small pool of the actual playerbase. (most of the people play this game for pve, after all)

Even then, I feel that you'll have a hard time finding people from the pool of active pvp players to back your idea of pvp being better without these mechanics, other than maybe a few arcane fire mages.
 
Weird how the two biggest nay sayers are a questionable warlock and a r14 Pom pyro mage who has likely never specced anything else ))))
 
Would love to see the change to the reflects but the reality is this.

I doubt that Kronos will change how the engineering gadgets work, at least for this iteration of the server. But the reason isn't that people don't want it. It won't happen due to limited developer time and hesitation over bringing in major unblizzlike mechanics just to appeal to a small pool of the actual playerbase. (most of the people play this game for pve, after all)


Lharts... Sit your 5$ ass down. Do you even play on kronos? Last time I saw you enter a bg was back in late 2015. Why do you care if the change to the reflects were to be implemented or not?
 
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Would love to see the change to the reflects but the reality is this.




Lharts... Sit your 5$ ass down. Do you even play on kronos? Last time I saw you enter a bg was back in late 2015. Why do you care if the change to the reflects were to be implemented or not?
he played a few days ago actually:

uxrP6rh.png
 
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