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    TwinStar team

The Question of Naxxramas Difficulty

You can cast 4 votes in this poll

  • Let us keep world buffs upon zoning into Naxxramas

    Votes: 105 25.9%
  • Remove world buffs upon zoning into Naxxramas (but allow them later on)

    Votes: 184 45.3%
  • Remove world buffs upon zoning into Naxxramas (permanently)

    Votes: 124 30.5%
  • I am not against changing monster stats

    Votes: 187 46.1%
  • I am against changing monster stats

    Votes: 169 41.6%
  • I am not against making invisible changes

    Votes: 124 30.5%
  • I am against making invisible changes

    Votes: 219 53.9%
  • I am not against making changes to fixed timers

    Votes: 139 34.2%
  • I am against making changes to fixed timers

    Votes: 201 49.5%

  • Total voters
    406
  • Poll closed .

Bazzil

New Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Dear community,


The development of Naxxramas is reaching its later stages, and now that 3 out of the 4 wings of naxxramas have been tested on the PTR, you have observed over half of the encounters in Naxxramas on Kronos. As you know the players on the PTR dealt more damage, and monsters base damage was reduced, so not everything on the PTR will feel the same once the release is out - but most of the aspects should, particularly all of the event timers and spells.

Over the course of the last months we have observed the community discussions here on the forum that has being going on regarding the difficulty of Naxxramas. Questions such as "should world buffs be removed when zoning into naxxramas?", and "should boss health in naxxramas be increased?" have been discussed with some in favor of one, others in favor of both, and some others in favor of none of them. There are no players who is of the opinion that Naxxramas should be made easier, so the conclusion we have is that the community wants either a Blizzlike or Harder than Blizzlike version.

From our point of view it is ironic that releasing a Blizzlike version of Naxxramas would mean to release a version where raiders might not need to use blizzlike strategies, but that is the reality. With the preparation and knowledge that the Kronos community has on their side, there will be fights that can be approached from angles that no guilds ever did it in 2006. So where does that leave us with regards to the promise of a Blizzlike experience? To answer this question we go to you, the community.

Make your voice heard in this poll, and keep in mind that we are essentially asking 4 questions, so you are able to cast up to 4 votes in this poll.



World Buffs
Anything that is not a player ability/spell or a consumable is likely to fall into the world buff category. If you need to be in a certain location in the game to acquire a buff, that's a world buff. Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer, Spirit of Zandalar, Songflower Serenade are all examples of buffs that would be removed upon entering Naxxramas.

Stats
Health and Damage are the stats which will be modified if any, and the values will depend on the encounter.
You can expect an 10% - 50% increase of health, as well as 5% - 25% increase in damage.

Make "invisible" changes to cooldown/event timers that already have a range
Abilities and events sometimes have a fixed cooldown, but other times not. The abilities that already have a range of cooldown can be adjusted to make encounters more difficult without disturbing the elements of the fight that are meant to be predictable. Obviously all of such changes would be done case by case.
Examples:
A monster may use Mortal Strike every 8 - 13 seconds. This could be reduced to 6 - 11 seconds.
Thaddius cast Polarity Shift every 25 - 35 seconds. This could be reduced to every 23 - 31 seconds.

Change fixed cooldown/event timers
Again, obviously all such changes would be done case by case.
Examples:
Noth the Plaguebringer's first floor phase lasts exactly 90 seconds.
Patchwerk berserks after exactly 7 minutes.
 
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Thank you for listening to your community on this topic.

Please post a taxative list of spells with their corresponding spellid that fall under the category worldbuff so people know what they are actually voting on.
 
If I vote for removing world buffs, does that mean that we will never be able to use world buffs in Naxx? Because I only want them to be removed for progression, i.e. a couple of weeks.
 
Do not forget that the majority of people who read the forums are dedicated people who play in dedicated guilds. Therefore the vote results (and connected changes) are mainly for these guilds, while less dedicated guilds might suffer from difficulty changes (while decent guilds might make the goal to kill a high HP boss, others might have NO chance). Maybe your could do a server wide broadcast every few (maybe 30?) minutes to reach more people.

Further changing boss ability timers might only be interesting they first two ids. After that the boss mod addons will be adjusted to what is Seen on video footage.

Anyways I would like to thank you for listening to your community and making this vote!!
 
Maybe your could do a server wide broadcast every few (maybe 30?) minutes to reach more people.
I second the server broadcast, forums have a very specific community. I think 90-95% of my semi-hardcore guild is never here.

Further changing boss ability timers might only be interesting they first two ids. After that the boss mod addons will be adjusted to what is Seen on video footage.
Even one ID makes a difference - this is the progression.

Just remove all visible buffs. Consumables and class buffs can be buffed once the raid is inside.
Would be the easiest option, although I really liked
please do it in a nice way, like KT yelling something: "Your Warchiefs Blessing does not work in my Realm of Death!" and purge...
 
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This is a brilliant way to approach the community speculation regarding difficulty, I was nervous to see what the decision would be because of possible community backlash.

But placing a large part of the decision in our hands is clever, props to the team, keep it up!
 
Naxx will already be hard enough for guilds to tackle, the original mistake Blizzard did was making Naxx so hard that only a fraction of the player population even got to see any bosses in there die, Even Blizzard admitted to this themselves.
Leave it Blizzlike, any guilds that really WANT the challenge can opt out of taking world buffs, like an Iron-man challenge, or climbing Mount Everest with no oxygen tanks.
To increase difficulty will just keep Naxx completely out of reach of a large section of the player base.
If you must start Modding the server away from Blizzlike, do it sometime After Naxx has been out by adding new content, maybe borrowing stuff from Wrath.
 
MAKE IT SUPER HARD!!!! Otherwise we would see so many casuals with imba gear running around WSG... Just like now with AQ40 geared clueless peeps... But I guess Naxx is gonna kill PvP soon or later, it's just a matter of time. Please don't hate.

- A Sad Man
 
To increase difficulty will just keep Naxx completely out of reach of a large section of the player base.
I think this argument has been killed off in every naxx discussion on kronos forums or any other wow medium already, it's really facepalming to read. there is literally one guild on each faction that would have trouble doing coordinated events like Gothik or 4HM, increasing HP wouldn't change a thing for them. What it would change for the other guilds is actually doing noth ph2, heigan dance, etc etc before simply nuking it before. Noone is asking for overbuffed naxx or a super challenge with flasks for all bosses required; people simply want to do all phases and not sleep through naxx. (overbuffing would burn ppl out more than it'll do good) You underestimate 1.12 dps, knowledge, consumable use, and private server playbase. One look at dire maul entrance before the raid would tell you this.

I'm in favour of all, worldbuffs speak for themselves, they trivialize encounters, but most importantly makes the buffing of stats extremelty difficult to find the right amount of buffing. You don't want to wipe and lose worldbuffs, and then have naxx take 2 hours longer since everything is tuned, or buffed, for having them. Worldbuffs make tuning for opening weeks simply too difficult.

The rest falls under same category as far as I'm concerned. You can increase Heigan HP a bit, but at the same time make the 'dance' commence a bit faster, otherwise you risk having to buff HP too much so 'lesser' (though I don't think any guild is vanilla level, almost all are above the level my vanilla guild, who cleared naxx, was) guilds will have trouble with their lower dps / losing ppl to tunnel too often. If you increase both the HP and make the dance timer faster, you ensure the fight is being done the intended way at any time.
 
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no idea
1 - 5 - 7 - 9

These changes are so complex. If you want something extra, it is easier to kill 25 - 50% random raiders upon boss pull. Then you will have your expected wipes.
 
100% blizzlike Naxxramas is trivial, even for a remotely decent guild, in 2017.
Make it harder.

Edit:
Hell, it's even easy for pugs.
 
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Good poll. I think if you only temporarily disable most World buffs, Naxxramas will be very challenging even in full tier 2,5 and all consumables.

Note that many guilds are struggling to get 40man right now, several guilds may not have 40 man going into Naxx.

I would be against changing original timers and boss stats, as that detracts from the blizzlike feeling. "Ye I defeated Loatheb but he had 10 million hitpoints", doesn't feel right. Not a story I could share with my friends that raided original retail. Not to mention it will f up Big Wigs and cause a lot of frustration. Bosses are designed for a certain enrage timer. Don't change this too much.

What would be cool is to still allow the EPL area buff in Naxx. All players in a guild that cannot join due to 40man limit, could still help in pvp, the 2nd battle in EPL!
 
As long as it's difficult. I want this raid to be harder than a pedophile at a toy store
 
Given that several guilds struggle to kill Cthun on a regular basis and need help from other guilds (and even those runs are not always getting full) and the massive amount of consumables, gear and tanks needed for some bosses (e.g. loatheb, sapphiron, 4hm), those in here who promote a harder naxx should take a look outside their own small cosmos.
 
Given that several guilds struggle to kill Cthun on a regular basis and need help from other guilds (and even those runs are not always getting full) and the massive amount of consumables, gear and tanks needed for some bosses (e.g. loatheb, sapphiron, 4hm), those in here who promote a harder naxx should take a look outside their own small cosmos.

I tend to agree, and taking away world buffs will already be a huge minus -50 dkp. Kronos should strive for balance and blizzlike, not the hardest possible tweakable raid possible. Go play mythic in retail. Problem with world buffs is that they are by their nature unbalancing. So I wouldn't mind them not being available, just like after your 1st wipe. And wipe in Naxxramas, you shall.
 
Have you thought about buffing hp/dmg values for the first weeks and then gradually move them to blizzlike values? Same approach as disabling world buffs for the first weeks. Tryhards get their challenge and increased e-peen for firstkills and farming later isn't an insane chore that almost no one enjoys.
 
I feel that removing all buffs while zoning in but allowing the EPL PvP buff to pass would be best desired.
I'd like it to be perminitly like this.

Mainly cause it'd make it easier for the devs to get the values to a sweet spot, with out worries of guilds skipping boss mechanics because they've been stock piling Ony and ZG buffs for over a year.

Putting all guilds and players onthe same level of gameplay
ect. One guild has 12 month of ony/zg buffs lined up making them over powered, allowing them to easily skip boss mechanics while they gear their guild with Naxx BIS Items. Then denying a newer guild a even playing field...

Only way around this to make it even to all guilds is to allow Ony and Hakkars heart be repeatable quest... but that's just silly.

Deleting all buffs but the EPL PvP buff could really benefit the servers PvP community, and should be the only advantage for guilds inside Naxx.
 
I think disabling world buffs will be a great addition to Naxxramas progress. This will prevent the elephant in the room which is forcelogging players during wipes. Some players even forcelog in the open world and if forcelogging buffs in Naxx is gonna be a thing then I hope GMs are ready with their banhammers.
 
Given that several guilds struggle to kill Cthun on a regular basis and need help from other guilds (and even those runs are not always getting full) and the massive amount of consumables, gear and tanks needed for some bosses (e.g. loatheb, sapphiron, 4hm), those in here who promote a harder naxx should take a look outside their own small cosmos.
Yeah lets always cater to the casual audience. EVERYONE has to experience everything and if it's too hard for them then its not up to them to adapt or improve no its the game that is supposed to be easy.

This attitude is what ruined retail wow in the first place where in the end the game was so streamlined and catered to casual players that we had to find refuge on private servers.
 
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