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    TwinStar team

AQ40 did not live up to the Kronos standard

If the developers have all the values from retail set in stone (which I think they do) then we don't have to worry about stupid shit like custom Abominations that hit for 20k. This was stated earlier as intended and that they just have to "chain stun them". If we went for an original Naxx then that aspect is taken care off. The developers time is freed up and they can focus solely on boss mechanics.

This is the problem with custom content; it's completely subjective. Under normal circumstances you could link a video in the bug tracker showing what an Abomination from retail hits for. We can't do that now since it's using custom values. It's completely up to the person scripting it and that person may, or may not be aware of the consequences of his actions.

The trash was the same. So many times the other night I witnessed full bis, flasked tanks get gibbed. 100-0 in under a second. Again, this is intended and the buffed trash they said it would have. Should I link a video in the bug tracker? No. It's pointless since it's going off the opinion of the developers who have been lobbied by the community in favour of buffing it.

I won't excuse the Patchwerk, Anub and Sapphiron problems which seem to be due to downright incompetence. Incompetence is probably not the word. Some of the stuff was so glaringly obvious it looks like they just didn't give a fuck and let it go live.
 
Although yes I heard the abomination change was intended this wasn't even a problem for Risen Vanguard, and Synced I assume but I dont know much about how far Synced got. However I definitely see a problem with abom damage for horde specifically. It's significantly harder for horde to deal with that compared to Alliance which is why I definitely think it should have been hotfixed ASAP. With that said almost everything that is being complained about isn't the tuning its like you said the glaring bugs that were seen on boss like Patchwerk, Anub and Sapphiron. KT was among one of these bosses.

Also as far as I know the custom tuning was almost entirely percentage increases in HP for most bosses and percentage increases in HP and DMG for KT and sapph which shouldn't take much thought from a development standpoint. It's not like they added entirely new scripts and mechanics that increased the difficulty of the boss. The mechanics were just wrong and we found that out after hours of testing. Vanguard personally found the most important bug in my opinion that ruins the entire fight which is the MC reset mechanic not working. It's probably killable with this bug if everyone was in T3 and full world buffs but in my opinion this mechanic not working would probably force you to kite the boss which IMO should not be legitimately strategy but yeah that's my opinion(there is precedent for Blizzard making sure kiting bosses is not a legitimate strategy for example on patchwerk when he hits enrage timer there is a second added enrage timer that does a ranged AOE attack so that kiting is not viable strat for killing patchwerk). Alot of the other bugs could have been kept in making the fight alot harder and I would have been ok with it but honestly the boss should have its mechanics working properly and not left intenitonally broken because its harder. Kind of like how Anub was fixed. He was doable and honestly it was fun to kill bugged Anub but I dont think his mechanics should be left intentionally broken because his bugged behavior makes him harder.

Again to make it clear they aren't complaining about it being too hard they are complaining at blatant bugs that are a result of lack of testing. I'm sure if these bugs didn't exist and the abom change was the only thing people noticed VG wouldn't have given up on KT until the hotfix were placed. Risen would still be doing KT attempts as well if this was the case.
 
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/qoute/ Something something synched vangaurd only guilds on KT /quote/ "said by someone"

So? Other guilds were on track to kill him night of, basically just Risen and maybe easy but still. Butt nope. Only opinion cared about is that of the 2 guilds that ruined their own naxx experience by turning it into a speedrun. Was it worth it?

Kronos should have asked synched and vangaurds opinion on opening Ares the same weekend as Naxx. Then maybe someone would have told them how retarded that idea was.




Anyways. What's really important are the bugs no one has really mentioned yet. Nice fucking job on the aggro radiuses Kronos. Noth is melee range, loatheb and about 10 others are 10 yards. Sapph and 4 Horsemen maybe 15. Like 3 bosses have even close to the correct aggro radius (gluth by default mostly, Heigan, and Thaddius also by default). Not even mentioning the trash. Did you guys even change it from the PTR. Hue. I thought Ouro aggro radius-- and a bunch of other AQ bosses--(which was reported like 2 years ago) was just kronos being lazy.


"Blah blah submit a bug report." I won't. Butt as I said someone (marell prolly) reported the shit like 2 years ago but not seeing loot and health is more important. Blizzlike.
 
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After reading some of the comments on this thread, I just want to give a HUGE thanks to the Kronos team! I had no idea you guys had to deal with this kind of stuff. I missed out on retail Naxx, but I raided a lot of cutting edge content over the years and competed for server firsts. To me, some of these posts are absolutely laughable. Naxx was cleared over 10 years ago. If you want to actually compete for something then go play on a retail server. Sorry, but Kronos Naxx doesn't count. This is a Private server to have fun on. I can't believe people actually take this "race" seriously. Actually, I take it back... you guys did a HORRIBLE job. You should just shut the server down... The race is over... it was bugged... IT'S NOT FAIR!!! WAHHHHHHH!!!!!
 
stevepelle said:
Naxx was cleared over 10 years ago. If you want to actually compete for something then go play on a retail server. Sorry, but Kronos Naxx doesn't count. This is a Private server to have fun on. I can't believe people actually take this "race" seriously.
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"The first marathon was finished over 2400 years ago. If you want to actually compete for something then buy a racing car. Sorry but running doesnt count anymore. This is for recreational purposes only. I can't believe people actually take racing with their own bodies seriously."


The fact that every detail of the race has been known for 10 years doesnt matter. What matters is the execution of those details. As long as people have to run the same track there can always be a competition. The problem was the brick wall in form of an unkillable KT on the finishing line which ruined the race for everyone.
 
roarnstuff said:
/qoute/ Something something synched vangaurd only guilds on KT /quote/ "said by someone"

So? Other guilds were on track to kill him night of, basically just Risen and maybe easy but still. Butt nope. Only opinion cared about is that of the 2 guilds that ruined their own naxx experience by turning it into a speedrun. Was it worth it?

Kronos should have asked synched and vangaurds opinion on opening Ares the same weekend as Naxx. Then maybe someone would have told them how retarded that idea was.




Anyways. What's really important are the bugs no one has really mentioned yet. Nice fucking job on the aggro radiuses Kronos. Noth is melee range, loatheb and about 10 others are 10 yards. Sapph and 4 Horsemen maybe 15. Like 3 bosses have even close to the correct aggro radius (gluth by default mostly, Heigan, and Thaddius also by default). Not even mentioning the trash. Did you guys even change it from the PTR. Hue. I thought Ouro aggro radius-- and a bunch of other AQ bosses--(which was reported like 2 years ago) was just kronos being lazy.


"Blah blah submit a bug report." I won't. Butt as I said someone (marell prolly) reported the shit like 2 years ago but not seeing loot and health is more important. Blizzlike.
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Sapphiron's aggro range is only short on the first pull when he first forms up. After that it's like 40 yards.
 
roarnstuff said:
Anyways. What's really important are the bugs no one has really mentioned yet. Nice fucking job on the aggro radiuses Kronos. Noth is melee range, loatheb and about 10 others are 10 yards. Sapph and 4 Horsemen maybe 15. Like 3 bosses have even close to the correct aggro radius (gluth by default mostly, Heigan, and Thaddius also by default). Not even mentioning the trash. Did you guys even change it from the PTR. Hue. I thought Ouro aggro radius-- and a bunch of other AQ bosses--(which was reported like 2 years ago) was just kronos being lazy.
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I have no idea what server are you playing on then:

Kronos Sapphiron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mcOr-3utdY
Retail Sapphiron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W2pQvmOcjc

Retail Loatheb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMWKNeIISmo
Kronos Loatheb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efOHM5NGNcs

Either you don't know what 10 yards are or I have no other explanation for you.

Edit: + Retail Noth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbAotryQ1s4
 
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Rembrandt said:
"The first marathon was finished over 2400 years ago. If you want to actually compete for something then buy a racing car. Sorry but running doesnt count anymore. This is for recreational purposes only. I can't believe people actually take racing with their own bodies seriously."


The fact that every detail of the race has been known for 10 years doesnt matter. What matters is the execution of those details. As long as people have to run the same track there can always be a competition. The problem was the brick wall in form of an unkillable KT on the finishing line which ruined the race for everyone.
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It sounds to me like you simply haven't raided in a true cutting edge environment. You can't base every strategy you use off of somebody else's and when you run into a "brick wall," maybe instead of calling it impossible... you should re-think your strategy? Okay, maybe the encounter is more difficult than intended or it is "bugged" to impossibility... but I'm pretty sure 95% of the server was happy to see you all fail on KT the first week. I get your point about marathons, but wow isn't a marathon. Farming can be a marathon, but newly released content is supposed to be exciting and surprising... or else whats the point? I guess you're happy with removing all the odds and winning the prize on day one. I'm sorry but part of life's challenge is not being ready for the expected, but it's dealing with the unexpected. You're all just mad that thing's didn't go as planned and you didn't win this imaginary race that literally nobody but the parties involved cared about. Get off your high horses and be thankful that there are people in the world willing to spend their own time and money to try and make people like you happy, even though the task is nigh impossible.
 
stevepelle said:
After reading some of the comments on this thread, I just want to give a HUGE thanks to the Kronos team! I had no idea you guys had to deal with this kind of stuff. I missed out on retail Naxx, but I raided a lot of cutting edge content over the years and competed for server firsts. To me, some of these posts are absolutely laughable. Naxx was cleared over 10 years ago. If you want to actually compete for something then go play on a retail server. Sorry, but Kronos Naxx doesn't count. This is a Private server to have fun on. I can't believe people actually take this "race" seriously. Actually, I take it back... you guys did a HORRIBLE job. You should just shut the server down... The race is over... it was bugged... IT'S NOT FAIR!!! WAHHHHHHH!!!!!
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Hey, racing on retail WoW isn't suitable for everybody, you know?
There's no need to undermine the WoW PvE paralympics here.
 
gly said:
Hey, racing on retail WoW isn't suitable for everybody, you know?
There's no need to undermine the WoW PvE paralympics here.
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LOL I guess somebody else feels the same way I do about this!

I knew coming to play on Kronos, I was going to come across some serious neckbeards... but the bar just keeps getting set lower and lower. Y'all should honestly just make your own server to play on and make your own version of Naxxramas. A perfect version that will fit everyone's idea of what a proper Naxxramas should be. I'm sure you will have no problem getting 40 fart-smellers together to agree on something! It will literally be the most epic version of Naxxramas that was ever invented! No bugs (besides Spider wing LOL), no world buffs, bosses tuned to exactly the right standards... I'm talking about a Naxxramas that is truly enjoyable for all! My advice is to hire some Naxx professionals. The true voices of the Naxxramas community. Create yourselves a Naxx think tank! Many have tried and failed, but I think you guys are more than capable of getting it right this time once and for all!! A Naxx to end all Naxx!
 
There's a whole spectrum of frustration in this thread, but I can break mine down very simply and it's nothing to do with the drama. We were told 5 weeks before release when Naxx would open. After that announcement, many players in my guild scheduled time off from work, cancelled plans, blocked out that weekend, I think one person declined an RSVP for a family member's baby shower ffs. People really fucking wanted to be there and made it an absolute priority to not let the guild down. Idk if Synced/VG were prepared to spend hours upon hours in there if their speedrun plans went awry, but honestly we were ready to dump up to like 30 hours into progression as a team last weekend if that's what it took to clear it.

I wish I was kidding.

This whole topic on "fairness" that keeps coming up is kind of a joke. I don't honestly think any favoritism happened here, but what did happen is Kronos screwed over all the players that had prepared for this date, after already waiting months upon months repeatedly for any information on the release schedule, and left them to twiddle thumbs and do fuckall until Wednesday, a day where a typical person has to work and won't be as likely to put their all into something they've been waiting a fucking year for. I wish I wasn't still sour about this but players in general got fucked royally over by it, and I can't believe all I see in this thread are people fucking meme'ing eachother over who's to blame. Get over yourselves and your petty guild drama, It's clear as fucking day who's to blame.
 
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i feel quite sad for all you people who spend 15+hours in 1 sitting in a raid complaining that a few bugs were present on LAUNCH DAY so you couldnt kill the last little boss.. get over yourselfs please.. this is a private server that you play for free..

you should also look at actual mmo Retail games with a hefty pricetag on them and look at how many times content was screwed up on launch day.. but yes... lets rage at volunteers who do this in their spare time trying to give somthing to us players that we wanted.

hell.. i'm sure if people didnt whine for custom values on some bosses because they've been tryharding everything else in this game to the point where everything feels laughably easy than this probably wouldnt have happened.
 
You clearly don't know anything about the kind of problems that happened in Naxx, and you don't seem to have read the thread. Why comment?
 
you mean the problem of running into an unkillable boss while having an imaginary "race" while the 2 guilds spend months practising it on other servers just for the sake of having an advantage ontop of the tactics beeing known for 10+ years ?

please enlighten me why i shouldnt think you people need to get some fresh air while you keep beeing angry at some volunteers that give you a free game.
 
RedWinston said:
you mean the problem of running into an unkillable boss while having an imaginary "race" while the 2 guilds spend months practising it on other servers just for the sake of having an advantage ontop of the tactics beeing known for 10+ years ?

please enlighten me why i shouldnt think you people need to get some fresh air while you keep beeing angry at some volunteers that give you a free game.
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This

But fix random NA lag spikes please
 
mooble said:
many players in my guild scheduled time off from work, cancelled plans, blocked out that weekend, I think one person declined an RSVP for a family member's baby shower ffs. People really fucking wanted to be there and made it an absolute priority to not let the guild down.
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It's not like we did not deliver Naxx. It was there for players to play. Yes, it had blemishes and a few bugs. But we delivered so the players weren't "out in the cold". In a perfect world a game would have no bugs or problems, especially on a launch day. Show me any game that has zero bugs, and minesweeper doesn't count. Even with a vast amounts of money and resources, problems happen. I took time off my rl job when new games were released. Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2, Arche Age, SWTOR, Wildstar to name a few. None of these titles had a flawless launch. Hell, the connection issue alone for Diablo 3 lasted 2 days for me, I took 2 days off and never got to play at all. Unfortunately in life, "shit happens". As "bad" as things were, things could have always been worse. Naxx could have been completely broken, inaccessible, not developed, connection issues, project shut down etc... Sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture and be thankful for what you have no matter how "imperfect" it is, especially from a group of volunteers.
 
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Davros said:
Sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture and be thankful for what you have no matter how "imperfect" it is, especially from a group of volunteers.
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Yes but players were begging you to allow them to also volunteer so that it's bug-free on release.
 
I think the criticism has been pretty constructive. Nothing wrong with wanting higher standards. If everyone just kept quiet (cause it's free!) then the bugs that have been discussed would not be fixed. Kronos other raids are pretty polished atm.

I still don't understand how some of the stuff on Sapphiron and KT got missed by the devs. Did they just not bother to internally test them or what? Was the live roll-out actually the Sapphiron and KT prt? It looks that way since identifying and fixing the problems didn't take very long. I'm also assuming Sapphiron is fixed now.
 
bl4ckc0d3r said:
Yes but players were begging you to allow them to also volunteer so that it's bug-free on release.
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And we had all 4 wings on ptr. Sorry that we chose to keep the final 2 bosses from this testing, yes there were bugs on them that should have been found but if we had to do it over again we'd still keep these two bosses out of testing so guilds would have to get used of mechanics on the fly.

- - - Updated - - -

Slippy said:
I still don't understand how some of the stuff on Sapphiron and KT got missed by the devs. Did they just not bother to internally test them or what?
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In our testing, some of the bugs did not occur when we did our internal testing (i.e: Ice blocks not blocking damage on Saph). Not always easy to find all bugs when not in a full 40 man raid, that's a limitation to trying to have some content not practiced by the community for launch.
 
Davros said:
And we had all 4 wings on ptr. Sorry that we chose to keep the final 2 bosses from this testing, yes there were bugs on them that should have been found but if we had to do it over again we'd still keep these two bosses out of testing so guilds would have to get used of mechanics on the fly.
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Spider wing was tested on the PTR in January and Anub'rekhan's impale was bugged and reported and there were 9 months to fix it and the bug was present on launch day but hot fixed 1 day later???
 
The last two bosses could have been tested without having guilds get used to mechanics on the fly. On top of this guilds can just practice on their own PTR so who cares.

Don’t make that mistake again.
 
i just want blizzlike values

i can deal with the bugs, these resolve over time.

please restore atk dmg, hp values, armor value, dodge/parry (is the defense values tuned up?) etc to blizzlike. this doesnt resolve over time. if patchwerk is supposed had 10 million hps in 2006 then i want that. if patchwerk had 1 million hps in 2006 then i want that. if anubrekhans impale instantly deleted your gear if you were hit by it then i want that. if its supposed to heal you then i want that.

please emulate blizzards values.

i can deal with slow development, bugs and other bs.
 
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