I know the pain theloras :wub:
Please don't start discussing this with killerduki. He is well known to stick to his wrong ideas no matter how much evidence you throw at him. Just ignoring him is the best policy or this thread will turn into trollfest.
Judgements, if activated on the same target from different paladins, don’t stack.
From the same blog:
http://paladin-guide.blogspot.cz/2005/12/paladin-combat-system_21.html
The patch note clearly states ICON, as in there were two icons displayed, but no beneficial effect was applied.
And the other blog's entry about stacking different ranks of judgement of wisdom is just theorycrafting. If you click at comments for the entry, the author says that he has to try it out in MC Even if it was true, his comment is older than the abovementioned "don't stack" comment.
From the same blog:
http://paladin-guide.blogspot.cz/2005/12/paladin-combat-system_21.html
The patch note clearly states ICON, as in there were two icons displayed, but no beneficial effect was applied.
And the other blog's entry about stacking different ranks of judgement of wisdom is just theorycrafting. If you click at comments for the entry, the author says that he has to try it out in MC Even if it was true, his comment is older than the abovementioned "don't stack" comment.
http://paladinsucks.blogspot.cz/2005_08_01_archive.html has nothing about different ranks, stacking etc...so not sure what you are talking about when you say:
"Also, you missed an important part Theloras, stating "And the other blog's entry.."
http://paladin-guide.blogspot.com/20...udgements.htmlis a different link entirely and he says:
"Judgements, if activated on the same target from different paladins, don’t stack."
Obviously, if 2 Paladins Judge the same max level rank of a Judgement, they do not stack and I am not advocating that they should. But nowhere does he state that different ranks do not stack - that's the difference.
Nope, he talks about different ranks of wisdom:In the link that you provided, he only talks about max rank for both Judgement of Light and Wisdom...
It's right there.As the cherry on top -- if you've got three Paladins you can judge all three different ranks of Wisdom on the target. They stack. Mega mana regain!
Waiting to be beaten by the nerf-stick, for sure...
Comparatively, here we have evidence from the same era of a Paladin specifically stating that different ranks of Judgements from different Paladins DO IN FACT STACK:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html...87757594799940
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#5Oct 09 2005 at 2:50 AMRating: Decent
Cathela
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Multiple paladins can stack different ranks of the judgements on the same mob. The last time my raid group killed Ragnaros we didn't have enough priests to do AoE heals on the rogues, so the three paladins in the melee groups coordinated different ranks of Judgement of Light on him, and the rogues and dps warriors ended up healing themselves a lot.
No, I haven't proven anything about max rank judgements, that's just what you assumed from reading the linked source. The link doesn't state anything specifically about any given spell rank, so please don't set its meaning to suit your own needs. The only meaningful difference between those articles is that my source contradicts your source and my source is posted later than your source.TLDR: You have proven that MAX RANK JUDGEMENTS should not stack on top of each other - which isn't something that I ever claimed to be true - but my evidence shows that multiple ranks of Judgements did in fact stack.
http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html...87757594799940
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#5Oct 09 2005 at 2:50 AMRating: Decent
Cathela
Scholar
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961 posts
Multiple paladins can stack different ranks of the judgements on the same mob. The last time my raid group killed Ragnaros we didn't have enough priests to do AoE heals on the rogues, so the three paladins in the melee groups coordinated different ranks of Judgement of Light on him, and the rogues and dps warriors ended up healing themselves a lot.
http://paladin-guide.blogspot.cz/2005/12/paladin-combat-system_21.html
Wednesday, December 21, 2005
Paladin combat system
...
Judgements, if activated on the same target from different paladins, don’t stack.
http://paladin-guide.blogspot.cz/2005/12/judgements.html
Saturday, December 17, 2005
Judgements
...
Debuffing Judgements
Multiple paladins can activate different judgements of this kind on the same target.
Makes sense now? Different Debuffs, not Different ranks of one debuff.Multiple paladins can activate different Debuffing Judgements on the same target.
Your previous "evidence" was this where he only listed max rank JoL and JoW:
We've got two amazing judgments that are very beneficial to groups: Judgement of Light and Judgement of Wisdom. Judgement of Light grants all melee attacks at it's rank 4 the chance of healing themselves for 61 hp. Judgement of Wisdom grants all attacks the ability to restore 59 mana. For example, casters with wands do not have the ability to be affected by Judgement of Light, whereas with Judgement of Wisdom they do. Makes sense? Warriors and Rogues don't need mana.
This is the only part that I wanted to talk about, nothing else in that article matters and I really regret NOT quoting the part in my first post, because it would save you a misunderstanding and save me from writing these walls of text for you Theloras.As the cherry on top -- if you've got three Paladins you can judge all three different ranks of Wisdom on the target. They stack. Mega mana regain!
http://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread...f-the-Crusader?p=800661&viewfull=1#post800661
And the other blog's entry about stacking different ranks of judgement of wisdom is just theorycrafting. If you click at comments for the entry, the author says that he has to try it out in MC Even if it was true, his comment is older than the abovementioned "don't stack" comment.
I got so fed up with this bullshit that I actually wound up investing even more time that I already did into this matter.
Please don't start discussing this with killerduki. He is well known to stick to his wrong ideas no matter how much evidence you throw at him. Just ignoring him is the best policy or this thread will turn into trollfest.
Well... I did warn you.
I got so fed up with this bullshit that I actually wound up investing even more time that I already did into this matter.
Who would have thought that after another 2h of searching I couldn't even find a single reliable source that confirms your claims.
If Judgment stacking was indeed possible there should be MANY sources. Even 2006+ ones. Like, that shit should be top priority information in every paladin guide in existance, no?
My point still stands.
You have proven (with the allakhazam link) that there was a time in 2005, when debuff judgements like wisdom, light or crusader could be stacked on a single enemy target, from multiple paladins. But none of the later sources like discussions, paladin guides or other comments confirm that this mechanic LASTED until patch 1.12, instead I linked you an article which states that it DID NOT WORK in late December 2005. That means there was probably a stealth nerf.
No I did not - he never mentions ranks
27 August, 2005
The best way to regain your mana
[CR]You think Innervate is good for mana regeneration? Think again.
A lot of people already know about this. I haven't discovered it really until now (stupid me!). This trick is pretty clever. Sneaky also. Sneaky enough for Blizzard to not thinking about it when they designed our seals and judgments. I remember reading on the Paladin forum way back with someone who said that he found out a clever way to have "ulimited mana" and that he wasn't telling anyone on how to do it because he didn't want it to be beaten with the nerf-stick like Seal of the Crusader was. To a certain extent I agree. But the trick -- it's just too good to not let you guys in on it.
And let me tell you:
It... Is... Amazing...
We've got two amazing judgments that are very beneficial to groups: Judgement of Light and Judgement of Wisdom. Judgement of Light grants all melee attacks at it's rank 4 the chance of healing themselves for 61 hp. Judgement of Wisdom grants all attacks the ability to restore 59 mana. For example, casters with wands do not have the ability to be affected by Judgement of Light, whereas with Judgement of Wisdom they do. Makes sense? Warriors and Rogues don't need mana.
Many Paladin players argue whether the best way to gain back mana in battle is to use Judgement of Wisdom in combination with Seal of Wisdom or Seal of the Crusader. With Seal of Wisdom you have the chance of both proccing and thus giving you mana. With Seal of the Crusader you strike faster, increasing the chance of gaining mana. Both work, but with limited results. Usually you have to spend a great deal of time on a mob to regain the mana you invested.
Seal of Fury is our aggro-grabbing spell. It's meant for us to be our primary seal for tanking. We were meant to use Blessing of Salvation in combination with Seal of Fury to be the party tanks. How does Seal of Fury work? It works by giving you 'invisible' procs. It doesn't show up on the combat log. When you strike with your weapon and it procs, it strikes simultaneously one time more with your weapon (...or was it two times? not sure, might've been Reckoning doing it's work). The extra strikes do not do damage. They're simply meant to bump you up on the aggro list.
The trick? The procs off of Seal of Fury works off of Judgement of Wisdom.
Judge Wisdom on a target. Activate Seal of Fury. Watch your mana regeneration zoom. It doesn't work with Judgement of Light because the extra strikes granted aren't counted as melee attacks. I'd recommend you to check your combat log and rub your eyes.[/CR]
As the cherry on top -- if you've got three Paladins you can judge all three different ranks of Wisdom on the target. They stack. Mega mana regain!
[CR]Waiting to be beaten by the nerf-stick, for sure...[/CR]
You are wrong little there ^In fact, these reports were posted and rejected by the devs both on Nos and Feenix alike.
In fact, these reports were posted and rejected by the devs both on Nos and Feenix alike.
You are wrong little there ^
In Nostalrius you was able to Stack , in Feenix you was not able to stack .
And @Blackpeixera i am not trying anything , i just bring evidence with links and mini analyze , nothing more so don't put words in my mouth.
Only one thing i would say which i have this joker in my bags but i will enjoy reading the fun until then.
JoL and JoW multiple ranks stacking was removed in 1 of the Vanilla Patch Notes early while JoTC stacking was removed in TBC Patch .
Now i will let you search that by yourself , i wont bother with some conclusions which many didn't even experienced during 2005/6 the reason they don't know about .