Kronos and GDKP raid
- Thread starter Myms
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Again, this is not related to GDKP whatsoever. If there is a problem with the server such that hunters are the best gold farmers then the problem lies with hunters being the best gold farmers. It has nothing to do with whether or not GDKP should be "allowed".
Imagine if the GMs were to announce: "GDKP raids banned because the best way to make gold is to have a level 60 hunter."
How are the two even related?
If there's an issue with gold farming imbalance between classes it has nothing to do with the way people decide to spend their gold. Similarly it has nothing to do with how people decide to run their raid groups.
At the time of this writing (note: everything is subject to change as deemed appropriate by the server admins) GDKP are not against the rules of the server.
Does this mean the GM team or server admin teams agree with these? not necessarily. My personal opinion is that I do not like them, and as such would not take part in them if I was given a choice. The server admins and GM team are not here to micromanage every aspect of the game. We are not here to dictate how players can play within the rules. Whatever is fun for you within the rules, should be up to the players.
Our role here is only to ensure that the rules of the server are followed, not to tell guilds how to run their raids/pugs. If a guild leader wants to loot all the gold after each boss and the rest of the raid get none of it then that's the decision of the admins of those guilds. Personally I think that's stupid, but we are not here how to tell players how they should play. We set up rules and enforce them.
Having said all that, all players should realize that we have a very strong zero tolerance policy when it comes to buying and selling gold. We spend dozens of hours each week going through gold logs catching both buyers and sellers. The hard work we as a team put into investigations have put a significant hurting on gold sellers. The price of gold has dropped well over 150% from its peak price. We haven't killed gold sellers, but they are on life support. Fewer and fewer buyers has destroyed gold sales and prices because it's known that we strongly target them. Sellers often say they take safety precautions to protect you (the player), but really what they do protects them only; well, so they think.. Using the AH to "clean" the gold is one of the "tricks" used most often, but unfortunately for them that step doesn't work on our server given the signifiant upgrade to our gold logs we have done over the past 6 months. We have been lenient with the buyers in recent months if they are co-operative with our investigation since who were really after is the sellers. But there will come a time (very very soon) that gold buyers will no longer get leniency. If you buy gold, zero tolerance will be applied just like we do for Sellers, Hackers, Exploiters.
So if the desire is there for those who want to try and get an advantage by breaking the rules so they can capitalize in such GDKP runs, that is a mighty big risk to take. With zero tolerance we punish the player (not just the account they're on). All dungeons are monitored daily by our team. As long as the rules are followed, there are no issues. But if you decide to cut corners and cheat/exploit, know that we are watching you and you will be punished.
Does this mean the GM team or server admin teams agree with these? not necessarily. My personal opinion is that I do not like them, and as such would not take part in them if I was given a choice. The server admins and GM team are not here to micromanage every aspect of the game. We are not here to dictate how players can play within the rules. Whatever is fun for you within the rules, should be up to the players.
Our role here is only to ensure that the rules of the server are followed, not to tell guilds how to run their raids/pugs. If a guild leader wants to loot all the gold after each boss and the rest of the raid get none of it then that's the decision of the admins of those guilds. Personally I think that's stupid, but we are not here how to tell players how they should play. We set up rules and enforce them.
Having said all that, all players should realize that we have a very strong zero tolerance policy when it comes to buying and selling gold. We spend dozens of hours each week going through gold logs catching both buyers and sellers. The hard work we as a team put into investigations have put a significant hurting on gold sellers. The price of gold has dropped well over 150% from its peak price. We haven't killed gold sellers, but they are on life support. Fewer and fewer buyers has destroyed gold sales and prices because it's known that we strongly target them. Sellers often say they take safety precautions to protect you (the player), but really what they do protects them only; well, so they think.. Using the AH to "clean" the gold is one of the "tricks" used most often, but unfortunately for them that step doesn't work on our server given the signifiant upgrade to our gold logs we have done over the past 6 months. We have been lenient with the buyers in recent months if they are co-operative with our investigation since who were really after is the sellers. But there will come a time (very very soon) that gold buyers will no longer get leniency. If you buy gold, zero tolerance will be applied just like we do for Sellers, Hackers, Exploiters.
So if the desire is there for those who want to try and get an advantage by breaking the rules so they can capitalize in such GDKP runs, that is a mighty big risk to take. With zero tolerance we punish the player (not just the account they're on). All dungeons are monitored daily by our team. As long as the rules are followed, there are no issues. But if you decide to cut corners and cheat/exploit, know that we are watching you and you will be punished.
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Muneca
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- Oct 2, 2015
it's related because you cant buy gear right now. hunters have 20k+ idle gold on them waiting to enter circulation if shit like gdkp happens. and more to follow. and yes, kronos allowing hunters to farm 20k gold in a week is a fucking mistake.
i guess they are just hoping the gold stays idle and people don't start spreading awareness about how it's done
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Snuffles
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- Jan 7, 2016
You've been saying "little gold" but fail to realize items will sell 1500g just for blues, 3000-10k for epics and high as 50,000 for legendary. Now think about how much the cut would be for our guilds each raid. Yes the security on this server is much higher than Feenix, so gold buying will mostly fail but that won't stop people from legit farming 24/7. It feels like you're only thinking about the European side of this. Europeans don't spend much in GDKP, that's why they always want Chinese to join their raid because they will buy for 1000's. I know from experience. Yes prices will also increase because people will be farming 10x as much as they already are. Simply because we cannot raid without gold. I would earn 1000's of gold each week for sitting in IF only attending GDKP. It's much different to EU GDKP but it will ultimately affect everyone. Yes maybe not right now because Kronos is different from Feenix, but the prices will be the same over time and gold earned from GDKP will be in the 1000's a week. It's not just 1-2 raids a week, it's every day GDKP 20 man 40 man and doing it on alts for more gold, that's how it was on ED and Warsong, and how it would end up here.
I don't know why anyone would dismiss me and think I'm talking a load of bollox, when I've been in the Chinese community for years already, whilst I assume none of you have. None of your really know what is going on in that community. So I'd take my word for it. I'm just trying to prevent the worst from happening. If it's GDKP I'll be rich just like I was on Feenix, but I don't care about the gold, I want to enjoy the game within a community which isn't run by greed.
Hagson and Ermean are right in what they say, so if you won't listen to me then pay attention to them.
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Yeah snuffles youre WAY OFF on the prices... Maybe in 2019 it'll be around there. Current estimate prices divide your guesses by 1/10 or 1/20. On ED a much more mature server it was 100g for t1 and 500g for rag choker. Nost which was a similar age server and it was 100-300g for t1/t2 and 400-1k for good epics.
GDKP isn't the end of the world, it is just that I and many others think it may lead to bad practices on the server. Also LOL at sitting in IF and doing GDKP's all day to earn your gold - Doing shitty 3 hour MC's for 75g isn't worth my time and and I would hate my life after 2 MC because of how terrible they would be.
Also Davros didn't answer whether you'd get banned for accepting gold from a gold buyer.
GDKP isn't the end of the world, it is just that I and many others think it may lead to bad practices on the server. Also LOL at sitting in IF and doing GDKP's all day to earn your gold - Doing shitty 3 hour MC's for 75g isn't worth my time and and I would hate my life after 2 MC because of how terrible they would be.
Also Davros didn't answer whether you'd get banned for accepting gold from a gold buyer.
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Muneca
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- Oct 2, 2015
So basically you say the Chinese are a failed people and the racists are right?
[sarcasm]
Don't give up hope! I am sure with the aid of the white master race you can crawl out of the darkness and learn the concepts of 'guild calender' , 'sign ups' , 'sunder armor' , 'heal rotation' , 'installing ktm meter' and 'speak out on teamspeak.'
[/sarcasm]
But I am happy to report that things dont look that grim. The first random two people I inspected this morning, one from Friends and one from Me Me Da both had ZG-ONY-MC and BWL epics equipped. Somehow they must have been able to overcome their cultural handicap and raid without gold!!!!!!!!!
stargirl
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- Jan 2, 2016
Sadly you don't know what is going on in Chinese guild.
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stargirl
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- Jan 2, 2016
He is right. You certainly have no idea how much gold Chinese people have. We had been raiding with Chinese GDKPs run in ED, that's why he know all of this.
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Snuffles
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- Jan 7, 2016
That's not how it works with Chinese, it never has and never will. Why do you say they are failed people because they think different to you? It's two different worlds IRL and In game that takes time to get used to. I didn't understand either at first, but then I learned their play style and really enjoy raiding with them and being a part of their community. I wasn't always with Chinese those on ED know that, so I was shocked at first at how different it is, and how things are.
You are wrong and have no idea like I keep saying. I've been raiding with Chinese GDKP for a very long time, and items would sell for exactly what I said, 1500g blues to 50,000g legendary. I actually was to pay 50,000g per binding, total of 100,000 for Thunderfury.
You keep in denial when someone who actually raids with them is telling you how it has always been. You are not inside the Chinese community, therefore you don't know what you're talking about. Do you raid with the Chinese all this time attending their GDKP? No because they usually won't allow foreigner as you cannot understand them.
Yes I would earn 1000's a week from sitting in IF only attending GDKP. While Europe GDKP earn you nothing because you are not huge farmers and also know exactly what the bis items are in game and won't spend on anything else. I was R14 and full bis, every week I would just make 1000's gold and never need to spend it.
You would all be very surprised if you were a part of the Chinese community, 'cause it's really different from European or American guilds. Explaining all of this is pointless because you can't ever be a part of it unless you can speak and understand Chinese for raid purposes.
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Snuffles
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- Jan 7, 2016
How is that solving anything? Overall prices are still rising, people are farming 24/7 everywhere, and we are filthy rich and control your Auction House. Is that what you're looking forward to? Just like on every other server? You are not rich because European guilds don't bid high or farm ridiculous gold. Our wives helping us farming gold, our parents and our children while we are at work or sleeping.
I certainly don't want this to become another ED Warsong gdkp cancer, and I hope you won't either.
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Snuffles
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- Jan 7, 2016
Once weekly raid? It's daily. We already raiding sometimes 2x a day. Check the Kronos logs if you don't believe, we have two 40 man raids (MC, BWL) and soon a 3rd. And we're just one Chinese guild. Please think.
stargirl
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- Jan 2, 2016
Well, it isn't a nightmare to him he just want to save you from having one.
Snuffles
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- Jan 7, 2016
You act like no one has alts, and it's not just 40 mans It's 20 mans. if you can't understand why it's going to be bad for you then that's going to be your problem in the future not mine. I'm trying to stop this madness - which will actually benefit me - for the sake of the server. I would be rich, but I'm thinking of everyone here not just myself and don't want it ruined like the rest. I have nothing more to say to you.
Convincing the GMs to change their rules might be easier if you chose to participate in this discussion.
Acting like everyone should listen to you because you know what's best, without actually explaining anything at all, is not helping anyone but yourself. You're essentially saying "Trust me, I know what is best for you, but I can't tell you what it is".
Two years down the line if GDKP causes the fall of Kronos, the only thing you will have accomplished in this thread is allowing yourself the right to say "I told you so", without helping us fix the issue at all. Thanks.
It's not as if we won't agree with you if we think you make good arguments to support your case -- you just haven't made any arguments whatsoever other than "I'm right and you should listen to me because I say so".
Acting like everyone should listen to you because you know what's best, without actually explaining anything at all, is not helping anyone but yourself. You're essentially saying "Trust me, I know what is best for you, but I can't tell you what it is".
Two years down the line if GDKP causes the fall of Kronos, the only thing you will have accomplished in this thread is allowing yourself the right to say "I told you so", without helping us fix the issue at all. Thanks.
It's not as if we won't agree with you if we think you make good arguments to support your case -- you just haven't made any arguments whatsoever other than "I'm right and you should listen to me because I say so".
Muneca
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- Oct 2, 2015
You are contradicting yourself. If the Chinese already raid that much, they don't need gdkp at all. They will soon have all the gear they need. I did some Armory inspects and most members at rank 1 or 2 had full epic gear.
They seem to do just fine.
If their national hobby is to accumulate an excessive amount of virtual currency, good for them. Unless they try to sell it, in which case I say, permaban their asses, I don't see any harm in that.
Translation: I met stargirl and fell in love. Well, congratulations! You did better than me, cause my fiancées either run away or refuse to become Scarab Lord...
On a more serious note, instead of dancing around the issue, what if you started to share some factual info with us about this 'different' method of raiding. You state that you enjoy it, so it can't be that bad, can it? We won't laugh, we are genuinely interested to learn more about this (for us) alien culture.
As I explained before those prices were heavly influenced by gold hacking, botting and item duping that ran rampart on Warsong especially in the early years. millions of extra gold in the market leads to those high prices.
If they just gdkp inside their own circlejerk, that doesn't harm us. They will just pass money to eachother.. Again: A raid doesn't generate money....
So all that money was completely useless. Again, no harm done. In fact you helped the server by acting like a sponge, soaking up liquid currency from the market.
So far , all you are doing is picturing the Chinese as a bunch of *****s with a good work ethos. I am sure they are not dumb, but in general pretty smart. So we would appreciate if you would share some more substantial info about their play style. They like to farm.. Ok we know that. What else do they like?
- - - Updated - - -
sorry for multipost...
Sadly you don't know what is going on in Chinese guild.
I don't know because neither you nor Snuffles ever answers our questions!
Is it illegal in your culture to answer a question in a debate? We don't have thought police here, you are free to speak.
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Snuffles
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- Jan 7, 2016
Haha, your're invited to our wedding.
I cannot say anything because I'm not Chinese and it isn't my place. I'm just telling past years experience on GDKP and don't want the same repeated. There's a lot you don't know, and I can't explain it to you, I just advise for sake of server, but I know I'm not sharing much and I understand if people don't want to listen. That's really ok, maybe someone will though.
Muneca and some others what you're saying makes sense and if i was in your position I'd be thinking the same way, but again there's too much you don't know, and it will never be my place to say, so sadly I cannot and will not share the facts, only the past experience I have I will share. So I'll stay out of the conversation from now on and let you all talk it out between you with real facts to support, like others have already done. None of you have any reason to believe me and I get that, because without facts anyone can say what they want.
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stargirl
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- Jan 2, 2016
The thing is, it is hard/complicated on both of our sides to say too much. It is also not just about the culture it's the respect for this people we played with for years. Explaining too much won't really give a positive results but more of judgement, so why care to explain about something that most people will never understand? What snuffles trying to do is making you all understand how GDKP will affect the future of the server. You're talking too much, you think you know but you don't. Please don't ask me if i know what will happen coz I don't either. This is just based on my experience. Maybe GDKP will give some good impact at the start but won't be later on. I'm not trying to scare anyone its just I don't want the time come people blaming Chinese for something you actually ask for to happen.
Also, FYI not all Chinese want this GDKP as well but if this is happening we just have to go with the flow. And for those people who are saying its a nightmare to us, no it isn't because like what Snuffles said it also gives us benefits but we don't want Kronos become Feenix. I just pity you guys, coz you're talking too much and when things goes wrong never ending complaints start.
Muneca
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- Oct 2, 2015
You are wrong here. You start with an assumption that we won't understand , and use that as a reason to not tell anything, so we don't understand anything.... That is just stupid.
Instead of more understanding, you now alienate us further from you. It is easy for us to think: 'Hey what is happening there? They won't talk? What do they have to hide? They must do something illegal then! It just creates more fuel for prejudice.....
bl4ckc0d3r
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