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Warrior Raids: [H] 2 h [A] Dual Wield?

Kiszh

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Joined
Apr 15, 2015
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5
#26
Bugged glancing blows in conjunction with ridiculous 2h WF scaling since it's not normalized with a class that uses a resource based on damage dealt which scales on top of this would pretty much explain the problem here.

Just imagine a cleave fight where every WW connect can potentially proc WF in combination with a very efficient way to dump your excess rage via cleave.
Glancings have been fixed for weeks now, and Chero said it never affected raid encounters, WW doesn't proc WF (and apparently never has here) unless that has been fixed.

That being said I picked up a deathbringer last week and spent some time hitting dummies, with and without flurry, no deep wounds specced at all. I was only wearing a mainhand weapon.

I've heard several people say that Deathbringer is providing them with more DPS in mainhand than crul is, which sounds weird to me, since I did a bunch of math and everything suggests that the extra white DPS and heroic strike DPS from crul should make it the superior mainhand weapon.

Every single test was somewhere between 1000 and 1500 melee swings and every single test deathbringer did more white swing dps than Crul, which correct me if I'm wrong should be down right impossible given that crul flat out has more DPS and there were not WWs and OPs to skew the result.

The proc was not the cause of the extra DPS either. It amounted to about 1-1.5 dps.

The average swing damage of the weapons ended up at exactly what it should when calculated from weapon damage range and AP and most tests were within .2% dodge to eachother, with crul usually being in the favor here. The constant outlier was that deathbringer consistently had too much crit with one test being near 7% too much and most others being somewhere around 2-3% while crul constantly landed right around the correct amount of crit. I'll do a proper test soon with a lot more swings to get more accuracy.

It could simply just be rng.

But then I bought a 1.4 speed dagger with 7.1 DPS and a 3.5 speed 2h sword with 7.1 DPS

I ended up with:

1.4 speed dagger: 87.5 white swing DPS 26.6% crit 5.9% dodge
3.5 speed sword: 96.8 white swing DPS 26.5% crit 5.7% dodge

Not a single special ability was used, and both weapons should yield the same DPS, or very close to when accounting for small variances like dodges and crits.

I have to admit I'm in deep water here, because I am seeing absolutely no reason why these two slower weapons should beat the faster ones in white swing DPS. If I have a glaring hole of missing knowledge I would very much like to have that pointed out before my hair goes gray trying to figure out why I am getting these results.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
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#27
Two hand fury is viable for a very few simple reasons. You dont need that much hit. Almost every move is benefited from a twohander. Since you dont need that much hit you are able to stack more crit and attack power thus increasing bloodthirsts damage as well in the long term. But it mostly depends on what weapon you have in order to keep up with the duel wields.
 

DrearyYew

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Joined
May 1, 2015
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#28
^ this. Dual Wield ends up being the way to go for sure since all of the best pieces have hit on them regardless, and that hit is wasted for 2H. In addition, Whirlwind hits harder, Flurry charges aren't eaten by off-hand weapons, much more manageable stance-dancing for Overpower (which also deals more damage), and arguably better talents (3% damage vs 25% offhand damage) are what is pulling 2H ahead right now.
 

Cpstabber

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Joined
Nov 17, 2014
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27
Location
East Coast, NA
#29
1.4 speed dagger: 87.5 white swing DPS 26.6% crit 5.9% dodge
3.5 speed sword: 96.8 white swing DPS 26.5% crit 5.7% dodge

Not a single special ability was used, and both weapons should yield the same DPS, or very close to when accounting for small variances like dodges and crits.

What race are you while you tested this?
 

shadowmoo

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Joined
Oct 14, 2015
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0
#31
Yo, what are your thoughts about 2h fury spec?

I heard from friends that Imp Slam is great to fuck with the autoattacks.
 

Figaro

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Joined
Nov 21, 2009
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206
Location
Vysocina
#32
slam is fine, you just need cast it right after white hit, to minimize swing reset time, cause slam reseting. More acurate you are, more swings you will do in fight. All you need is good autoatack swing timer addon.
 

Storfan

New Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
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6
#35
Thanks!

Anyrecommendations for a good autoattack addon?
Forget about it. The problem with slam-spec is that the potential damange-yield isnt worth the bother of having to:
A): Spec for imp slam, missing other important talents
B): Give up mobility since slam is a "spell" and will be interrupted if you move around.
C): HIGHLY dependant on yours, and the servers latency meaning lag will ruin your DPS.

Dont slam, its not worth it.

^
 

lupeh

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Joined
Nov 8, 2014
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8
Location
netherlands
#37
I Believe I know what I'm talking about since I've raided with a fury warrior alot, few bosses from Naxx in retail Vanilla and upto Saphiron at Project Feenix. Have tried 2h multiple times but when in high end game raiding it comes nowhere near dual wield in dps. I used to easily put out over 2k dps at Thaddius and ~1.4kish at Patchwerk.
Feenix nuff said

Verstuurd vanaf mijn PLK-L01 met Tapatalk
 

Redivh

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Joined
Apr 27, 2016
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0
#39
kronos-logs.com is shit to begin with. Its ranking healers as top dps in some of the raid fights. I've never seen a more disorganized shitty tracking system. realm players or kronos armory if you want real stats. Hell the stupid site has me listed as a member of RMB when I'm a GM of my own guild. Pure trash dont waste your time with it.
 
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Earthpacu

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Joined
Apr 11, 2016
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#40
so is BRE & 2handed fury only viable on horde side then?

I would love to try it as I have pretty shit weapons at the moment and my guild has MC on farm but I'm not sure if it's worth it without WF totem.
 

varth

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Joined
Jul 26, 2016
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48
#42
BRE works alliance side only when full world buffed and consumed, otherwise like Benjey said you are rage starved. If you are alliance just start farming for ironfoe since its BiS all game.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
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12
#44
source?

With full world buffs i could see it, sure, but otherwise?
It's proc at worst is a +20% white dmg modifier, White dmg is 40℅ of a warriors dps on a bad day due to +5 mace from human and +4 mace from AQ40 offhand. Feel free to math from there.
 
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varth

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Joined
Jul 26, 2016
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48
#46
If you can't be bothered to do the math or research anything then that is on you. There's this thing called the internet that allows you to research anything on the planet including Ironfoe proc rates, both on Kronos and retail vanilla. Once you have the proc rate you can math it yourself with an elementary level education. If you don't care enough to do some research then I don't care enough to do it for you.
 

varth

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Jul 26, 2016
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#48
I apologize for being short with you, that was unwarranted. I'll put together what I have once I get home from work later tonight.
 

varth

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Joined
Jul 26, 2016
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48
#50
Ok first ill show sources of kronos ironfoe proc rates. Here's a bug report where chero fixes procs to a lot of items including ironfoe, with 10% listed https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=718. Another form of evidence to support this rate is dpsmate which records procrates http://legacy-logs.com/Vanilla/Raid...empts=&player=16160&sel=0&pet=0&tarid=&mode=2 being an example. Most dpsmate parses have the proc from 9-11% due to variances. People to look for that raid with ironfoe that I know are Hotslice in Risen, Tuggett, Matoko, and Varth in Rag Monday to get more data if you want it.

With the 10% in mind that's where you get the +20% modifier. 10% chance to double attack comes to a 20% modifier to white dmg. In dpsmate you can actually see how much dps the proc does as well so for instance in that Hotslice BWL the proc averaged 37.19 dps. Add that to ironfoes dps of 43.5 and you get 80.69 dps from Ironfoe for Hotslice. Of course he was probably world buffed but it gives you a rough idea of how much ironfoe contributes to dps.
 
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