Paladin seal twisting

[killerduki]

https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthrea...t-spec-for-PvP?p=808569&viewfull=1#post808569

Thanks God he muted me so his claim remain legit.

Did anyone read careful what this guy just wrote?!

This guy is most Retarded Believer in the World.

1) Holy resistance is not shown in game, but it actually still exists in the game code. Since there is no way to boost holy resistance, it's highly unlikely that a monster will resist or fully resist your holy spells. The only cause is resist by level difference, which is the reason for our current discussion. When attacking L60 you probably won't see any resists, but when attacking a L62 or boss monster, the partial resists will appear.

2) It depends on the monster you're fighting. I read some wiki article that the client acts as if a lvl 63 (boss) monster automatically had 24 resistance to all spell schools for the purpose of resisting, so the chance to get fully resisted is only around 1-2%. My recent test with target dummies supports that.

3) Judgement of Command's resist chance is higher, because it follows spell hit rules. That means, in addition to the statement above for SoComm, JoComm's chance to get resisted is related to caster's spell hit. Vs. a L60 target, you have 4% chance that judgement gets resisted, vs boss it is 16% chance that judgement gets resisted. Note that this is only true with damaging judgements, JotC, JoW and JoL always land.

4) SoComm is a special magic attack that follows the rules of physical attacks and abilities. It follows melee crit and melee hit rules, so it can miss, be dodged, parried, blocked, it crits for 2x damage, but since the damage dealt is magical, it is also subject to resists.
JoComm is a magic spell. While it also follows melee crit and crits for 2x damage, it uses spell hit for miss calculations. Since spell miss is displayed as "resist" on vanilla, JoComm can only be a hit, crit, resist or partial resist.
I'd love to get my hands on some combat log data about paladins, but I couldn't find any.

Also I don't get logged out from forum or from bugtracker mid-post, cookies keep me logged in, sounds like an issue with your browser or security settings.



I'm only saying that the absence of a fully resisted spell is NOT evidence that spell is never fully resisted. Using your own words, TL;DR: The absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.

Paladin is not the only class having resists on their "physical" attacks, Hunters with Arcane Shot and Serpent Sting will experience them aswell. I also did a test before starting this lengthy discussion with you two, I was autoattacking a boss monster for 10 minutes straight. Out of 100 SoC hits, I had two full resists on Kronos. My SoC in that particular fight was 19% of total dmg dealt, and out of that 2% of attacks were a full resist. Much effect. Such wow. Must fix.

Let me begin step by step:

1) Holy resistance is not shown in game, but it actually still exists in the game code. Since there is no way to boost holy resistance, it's highly unlikely that a monster will resist or fully resist your holy spells. The only cause is resist by level difference, which is the reason for our current discussion. When attacking L60 you probably won't see any resists, but when attacking a L62 or boss monster, the partial resists will appear.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_0.9

Holy Resistance has been replaced with Arcane Resistance.

And then again he play with assumptions to claim his "believing nonsense" (only retards deny evidence and assume).

2) It depends on the monster you're fighting. I read some wiki article that the client acts as if a lvl 63 (boss) monster automatically had 24 resistance to all spell schools for the purpose of resisting, so the chance to get fully resisted is only around 1-2%. My recent test with target dummies supports that.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060718...ow-europe.com/en/info/basics/resistances.html
2005 ^

http://web.archive.org/web/20060719121457/http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/resistances.html
2006 ^

Resistance Score----------------50 -100 -150 -200-250
Chance to Resist Spell-----------0%-1%-1%-11%-25%
Chance to Resist 100% Damage--0%-1%-1%-11%-25%
Chance to Resist 75% Damage---2%-6%-18%-34%-55%
Chance to Resist 50% Damage---11%-24%-48%-40%-16%
Chance to Resist 25% Damage---33%-49%-26%-14%-3%
Chance to Take Full Damage-----54%-20%-7%-1%-1%

That was again another nonsense "believer" which says bullshit regarding Resistance score.

!!!!!!Now everyone read this careful!!!!!!
(Anyone that played Vanilla,TBC,WotLK will confirm that this was most retarded speech that's been ever said)

3) Judgement of Command's resist chance is higher, because it follows spell hit rules. That means, in addition to the statement above for SoComm, JoComm's chance to get resisted is related to caster's spell hit. Vs. a L60 target, you have 4% chance that judgement gets resisted, vs boss it is 16% chance that judgement gets resisted. Note that this is only true with damaging judgements, JotC, JoW and JoL always land.

And Because both are in same subject differently retarded explained i will put them on same answer.

4) SoComm is a special magic attack that follows the rules of physical attacks and abilities. It follows melee crit and melee hit rules, so it can miss, be dodged, parried, blocked, it crits for 2x damage, but since the damage dealt is magical, it is also subject to resists.
JoComm is a magic spell. While it also follows melee crit and crits for 2x damage, it uses spell hit for miss calculations. Since spell miss is displayed as "resist" on vanilla, JoComm can only be a hit, crit, resist or partial resist.
I'd love to get my hands on some combat log data about paladins, but I couldn't find any.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_table

Magic-damage melee auto-attacks

- The attacks of some monsters that do magic damage are actually treated as melee attacks, and use the standard melee auto-attack rules. For example, the melee attacks done by a fire elemental inflict fire damage, but they're resolved as an ordinary white-damage auto-attack—they can miss, be dodged, be parried, be blocked (as of Patch 3.0), and do double damage on a crit. The only difference between how a magic-damage melee auto-attack, and an ordinary physical damage melee auto-attack, is resolved is that if the target has any resistance to that school of magic, the same check is made to see if the damage is partially resisted as would happen from a spell.

Magic-damage melee special attacks

- Some monsters also have melee "specials" (the equivalent of yellow-damage attacks done by players) that do magic damage. For example, the Crystal Strike ability of the Erratic Sentries on the Isle of Quel'Danas inflicts Arcane damage, but is resolved as an ordinary melee special attack—it can miss, be dodged, be parried, and be blocked, and does double damage on a crit. The only difference between how a magic-damage melee special attack, and an ordinary physical damage melee special attack, is resolved is that if the target has any resistance to that school of magic, the same check is made to see if the damage is partially resisted as would happen from a spell.

- A few player abilities, such as a paladin's Seal of Command, are likewise resolved as yellow-damage melee attacks that deal non-physical damage. The odds of the various attack results occurring with one of these attacks are determined the same as for physical melee attacks—the base chances are determined by the player's Weapon Skill with the wielded weapon, the miss chance is reduced by the player's Hit Rating, the chance to be dodged and parried is reduced by the player's Expertise, and the chance to crit is increased by the player's Agility and Crit Rating.

Magic-damage ranged special attacks

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Judgment

Judgment is a paladin ranged ability,

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_C ... did=327126

However like other physical attacks, Seal of Command can miss, or be dodged, parried, or blocked. Judgement of Command can only be resisted.


- The Arcane Shot of a Hunter, and the Hammer of Wrath and Avenger's Shield talent of a Protection-specced Paladin, are resolved as ranged attacks that do non-physical damage. They can miss or be "fully resisted"—and they do double damage on a crit. The only difference is that if a mob target is higher level than the player attacker, or if the target has any resistance to the school of magic used by the attack, the same check is made to see if the damage is partially resisted as would happen from a spell.

And Since

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_0.9

Holy Resistance has been replaced with Arcane Resistance.

This rule for "Fully" or "high partial" resist won't apply as it should never apply for "Holy Spells".

I'm only saying that the absence of a fully resisted spell is NOT evidence that spell is never fully resisted. Using your own words

Now that everything was provided as "Evidence" explained trough Blizzard Websites , Patchnotes , Wowwiki .

He deny :

[video=youtube;ovhRqAxnXqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovhRqAxnXqg[/video]
Uploaded on Nov 19, 2006


Resists suppose to be Partial

1:32 = 476 dmg (159 resist) = 25% = 635 full amount of damage - Seal of Command

2:02 = 322 dmg (321 resist) = 50% = 643 full amount of damage - Seal of Command
2:07 = 163 dmg (54 resist) = 25% = 217 full amount of damage - Judgement of Command
2:26 = 262 dmg (87 resist) = 25% = 349 full amount of damage - Judgement of Command

But never Full (Seal of Command)

Only Judgement of Command suppose to be "Full Resist" instead Dodge/Parry/Block if you lack melee Hit Rating.

Paladin is not the only class having resists on their "physical" attacks, Hunters with Arcane Shot and Serpent Sting will experience them aswell. I also did a test before starting this lengthy discussion with you two, I was autoattacking a boss monster for 10 minutes straight. Out of 100 SoC hits, I had two full resists on Kronos. My SoC in that particular fight was 19% of total dmg dealt, and out of that 2% of attacks were a full resist. Much effect. Such wow. Must fix.

And because he is too ****** to accept the evidence that counter his "Believes" he deny every single thing explained:
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_table

- A few player abilities, such as a paladin's Seal of Command, are likewise resolved as yellow-damage melee attacks that deal non-physical damage. The odds of the various attack results occurring with one of these attacks are determined the same as for physical melee attacks—the base chances are determined by the player's Weapon Skill with the wielded weapon, the miss chance is reduced by the player's Hit Rating, the chance to be dodged and parried is reduced by the player's Expertise, and the chance to crit is increased by the player's Agility and Crit Rating.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_0.9

Holy Resistance has been replaced with Arcane Resistance.

^^^^ Because he is stupid enough for this ^^^^ where 0 Resistance (non existant Holy) suppose to be under:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060718...ow-europe.com/en/info/basics/resistances.html

Resistance Score----------------50 -100 -150 -200-250
Chance to Resist Spell-----------0%-1%-1%-11%-25%
Chance to Resist 100% Damage--0%-1%-1%-11%-25%
Chance to Resist 75% Damage---2%-6%-18%-34%-55%
Chance to Resist 50% Damage---11%-24%-48%-40%-16%
Chance to Resist 25% Damage---33%-49%-26%-14%-3%
Chance to Take Full Damage-----54%-20%-7%-1%-1%

It should never ever resist more than 75% of the damage (not even that much since Holy Resistance is not even 50 but 0 "non existant")

Everytime I enter the Paladin section it's like :

This is a bit sad, because Theloras has proven to be a very invested member in the Retribution Paladin cause (and has written amazing guides for them) in the Vanilla private server community. I'm sure Killerduki, despite his stubbornness only wants the good of the Paladin class.
Come on guys, can't you just love each other ?

Sorry for my bad english.

I am stubborn because i present Evidence and know how things work despite Psojed that work on "Believes" and counter me at any sign so he "Mute" to hide that this server is extremely Game Breaking bugged so he spill all the nonsense lies.

As I found out yesterday, we've been shitstorming since 2013, tho on the other forum it was kept much more civil than here

I agree, he did write some nice guides with lots of information, I just wish he could accept a different opinion.

And he says that we don't accept a different opinion where he don't accept "Evidence" because of his ****** "Believes"


Good luck with this , you are free now not to just mute me, but you can ban me for the truth exposed how retarded Dev/Tester this server have.

 

[Lindemann]

Main points I'd like to make - what kind of excuse is it, Psojed, to pretty much say 'this thread is shit so I'm now justified in going 100% openly off-topic'? Why hasn't anyone addressed the guy who brought up Thel being accused of "stalking girls in teamspeaks"? Especially concerning since Thel himself got banned for posting off-topic discussion in this thread.


And back on topic...

I'm not [autistic/]passionate enough to look into these things like Thel has so maybe my opinion is useless with regard to seal twisting, but the damn arrogance coming from the administration here is completely unacceptable. There's nothing here to indicate him or Duki are trolling so it's really pathetic to just use that as an excuse to dismiss everything he's saying. Although I think Thel's literal obsession with this one topic is kinda fu**ed he's obviously put a lot of time into it and I think everyone would have benefited if you didn't provoke him. Also it's pretty obvious Psojed got him banned, I don't care if he doesn't officially have the authority to do so. Regardless, Thel was only replying to the other guy who still has not been banned, and given the official reason for Thel's ban being him posting off-topic discussion the bans clearly should have been the other way around.

P.S. This entire thread is a fu**ing mess, there are like 10 posters here and only maybe 2 didn't come across as autistic babies or an 'in-crowd' abusing their influence, everyone else was being an utter asshole.


P.P.S. If Thel was the troll here he's doing a terrible job, because it's clearly him who's getting all worked up over this.

 

[Blackpeixera]

Main points I'd like to make - what kind of excuse is it, Psojed, to pretty much say 'this thread is shit so I'm not justified in going 100% openly off-topic'? Why hasn't anyone addressed the guy who brought up Thel being accused of "stalking girls in teamspeaks"? Especially concerning since Thel himself got banned for posting off-topic discussion in this thread.


And back on topic...

I'm not [autistic/]passionate enough to look into these things like Thel has so maybe my opinion is useless with regard to seal twisting, but the damn arrogance coming from the administration here is completely unacceptable. There's nothing here to indicate him or Duki are trolling so it's really pathetic to just use that as an excuse to dismiss everything he's saying. Although I think Thel's literal obsession with this one topic is kinda fu**ed he's obviously put a lot of time into it and I think everyone would have benefited if you didn't provoke him. Also it's pretty obvious Psojed got him banned, I don't care if he doesn't officially have the authority to do so. Regardless, Thel was only replying to the other guy who still has not been banned, and given the official reason for Thel's ban being him posting off-topic discussion the bans clearly should have been the other way around.

P.S. This entire thread is a fu**ing mess, there are like 10 posters here and only maybe 2 didn't come across as autistic babies or an 'in-crowd' abusing their influence, everyone else was being an utter asshole.


P.P.S. If Thel was the troll here he's doing a terrible job, because it's clearly him who's getting all worked up over this.

So, you joined this forum, to report on the trolling and tell us that you're mad at the trolling? Then you proceed to call us "autistic babies"?

I delight in the irony.

About me saying the things about Theloras stalking girls, yeah, i deeply apologize for that. It was a rumour that i heard about in Feenix. i shouldn't throw such harsh shit when they're just rumors, but oh well.

Still, that doesn't excuse the behaviour of Theloras or Duki. They're not from this server. Their home is not here. They have NO merit coming here, taking a crap all over Chero's work and Psojed feedback, and just shitting all over the server, and getting away with it.

Duki is famous on the pserver community by being a hardheaded person with a terrible english, a even worse attitude and a complete incapability of understanding NO.

Both of them provided dubious evidence of their claims. Things like reports from players aren't exactly evidence. Wikis can be modified, and gms can't be open about these. So we have to go with gut feeling and several other dubious crap. it's a harsh work, and i don't see any of you thanking Chero for it.

If you joined to stir crap, get out. None of us have the patience to deal with this. Not anymore.

 

[Lindemann]

So, you joined this forum, to report on the trolling and tell us that you're mad at the trolling?

Nah I don't think you're trolls, I'm just saying Thel isn't a troll. You guys seem more just like jerks.

Then you proceed to call us "autistic babies"? I delight in the irony.

Well, if I did call you autistic babies you clearly show a willingness to do the same to me right here. But no, I'm saying Thel's posts come across as autistic rage a bit.

Still, that doesn't excuse the behaviour of Theloras or Duki. They're not from this server. Their home is not here. They have NO merit coming here, taking a crap all over Chero's work and Psojed feedback, and just shitting all over the server, and getting away with it.

First off, they don't have a home. I know Thel was on Nostalrius and I assume the other guy is a Nost refugee too. They came here looking for a new home and I guess really don't appreciate the 'in-crowd' 's unwillingness to listen. And yes, they should have every right to come here are criticise Psojed's work here. You can't just ban someone because you don't like them, that's why forums have rules. When you act like a fu**king douchebag and selectively pick and choose who the rules apply to, then you get these autistic rages from people like Thel.

Duki is famous on the pserver community by being a hardheaded person with a terrible english, a even worse attitude and a complete incapability of understanding NO.

I've never heard of him but I could clearly understand his posts here.

with a terrible english

a even worse attitude

complete incapability of understanding NO

I completely get what you're saying here, but pretty funny that all this follows you criticising him for not being a native English speaker. His English is better than your own.

Both of them provided dubious evidence of their claims. Things like reports from players aren't exactly evidence. Wikis can be modified, and gms can't be open about these. So we have to go with gut feeling and several other dubious crap. it's a harsh work, and i don't see any of you thanking Chero for it.

So tell them exactly what type of evidence is needed and tell them that until they meet that requirement they can't take their word for it. Simple as that. It's kinda weird though that you just said their evidence isn't up to scratch but followed it up with "we have to go with gut feeling and several other dubious crap", for someone on the sideline it sounds like you're again selectively applying different standards to whoever you happen to like or agree with.

If you joined to stir crap, get out. None of us have the patience to deal with this. Not anymore.

Just don't read/reply if you're really bothered. I was only interested in reading what they have on the pally forums but just happened to stumble upon this mess.

 

[Psojed]

Main points I'd like to make - what kind of excuse is it, Psojed, to pretty much say 'this thread is shit so I'm now justified in going 100% openly off-topic'? Why hasn't anyone addressed the guy who brought up Thel being accused of "stalking girls in teamspeaks"? Especially concerning since Thel himself got banned for posting off-topic discussion in this thread.

I didn't go openly off-topic now, did I?

As far as accusations go, Theloras can use the power of local moderators in the same way as any other user can. You can report harrasment, off-topic or anything else that's against the forum rules.

If I were a forum moderator, I would have purged the mentioned four topics of this sh!t a long time ago and everyone included in the offtopic would get a forum warning.

There's nothing here to indicate him or Duki are trolling so it's really pathetic to just use that as an excuse to dismiss everything he's saying. Although I think Thel's literal obsession with this one topic is kinda fu**ed he's obviously put a lot of time into it and I think everyone would have benefited if you didn't provoke him.

I suggest you visit Theloras or duki's profile, and go back chronologically on their posts in the Paladin section.
This topic is the fourth topic where Theloras and killerduki started posting offtopic posts about paladin issues they deem as bugs. In the first ones, I replied to their claims and gave them a proper explanation, every time. They disagreed with the explanation I gave them, but instead of providing a counter proof to my words, they kept reposting their previous posts and proofs which I already countered in the previous discussions. Later, they started calling out my name for various reasons. For your explanation, I would consider that trolling.

Also it's pretty obvious Psojed got him banned, I don't care if he doesn't officially have the authority to do so. Regardless, Thel was only replying to the other guy who still has not been banned, and given the official reason for Thel's ban being him posting off-topic discussion the bans clearly should have been the other way around.

Too bad I had no hand in his ban. The only thing I did was report the off-topic discussions.

Anyway, from his latest posts, Theloras only keeps accusing Kronos. Comments of "untold other bugs making Ret an absolute joke here" and comments like "Retribution is so bad on Kronos that even I wouldn't play it here" only show Kronos in a bad light. But Theloras does not actually play on Kronos (as he himself said multiple times) and he has no idea what works and what doesn't. Instead, anyone can watch streams and videos with people playing on Kronos and having no issues. With that said, anyone with a brain can easily make his own opinion about his comments.

Basically he's badmouthing the server on its own forum, after getting 2 forum timeouts already, so there's your reason for ban.

First off, they don't have a home. I know Thel was on Nostalrius and I assume the other guy is a Nost refugee too. They came here looking for a new home and I guess really don't appreciate the 'in-crowd' 's unwillingness to listen. And yes, they should have every right to come here are criticise Psojed's work here. You can't just ban someone because you don't like them, that's why forums have rules. When you act like a fu**king douchebag and selectively pick and choose who the rules apply to, then you get these autistic rages from people like Thel.

I don't care if the person plays here or elsewhere, or if he plays wow at all. As long as his posts make sense, I'm all for them posting it.

The issue with these two is that they were posting the same thing back on Feenix, as early as in 2013. Since then, they didn't add much to their bug reports, they only kept reposting them on newer servers like Nost and now here. Theloras even linked their previous bug reports from another server. If you really want to read through all that we posted, start from here https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread.php/106688-Weapon-spec-talents-working/

So tell them exactly what type of evidence is needed and tell them that until they meet that requirement they can't take their word for it. Simple as that. It's kinda weird though that you just said their evidence isn't up to scratch but followed it up with "we have to go with gut feeling and several other dubious crap", for someone on the sideline it sounds like you're again selectively applying different standards to whoever you happen to like or agree with.

I did exactly that.

In case of "1h weapon spec should add +10% to all damage, on Kronos it adds +10% to melee damage", killerduki posted a retail video to prove his claims, and on the same video I have proven that their bug report is invalid. I also pointed them to another bug report which might be worth their time. https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthrea...pec-talents-working/page3?p=801451#post801451

In case of "SoC can never be a full resist", none their proofs specifies that SoC can never be a full resist, every proof only mentions a resist or a partial resist. Argument like "Seal of Command uses melee crit, so it cannot be resisted" is nonsense, since the same thing can be said about Judgement of Command. And the one posted video shows a ret paladin DPSing on golemagg, showing lots of partial resists. This was supported by an article about resistances on wowwiki (which clearly mentions that spells can also be fully resisted), and later by the original articles on Resistances by Blizzard, which also shows that spells have a small % chance to be fully resisted, so those proofs work against their case.
Finally, I did a test sample of SoC full resist vs. a boss level on Kronos, and the amount of fully resisted SoC procs in a 5 minutes sample was as low as 2%, which fits the original blizzard's description of resistance mechanics. Just because one video from retail does not show a full resist on Seal of Command, I won't conclude that a SoC cannot be fully resisted ever.

In case of reckoning, everything works as intended and Theloras is just posting empty claims. We have videos of reckpallys from Kronos, so feel free to watch them.

In case of seal twisting, there was no bug reported. Seal twisting also works on Kronos, and the only reason we have a discussion here is that Theloras wanted something to post about and call out my name yet again.

 

[killerduki]

In case of "SoC can never be a full resist", none their proofs specifies that SoC can never be a full resist, every proof only mentions a resist or a partial resist. Argument like "Seal of Command uses melee crit, so it cannot be resisted" is nonsense, since the same thing can be said about Judgement of Command. And the one posted video shows a ret paladin DPSing on golemagg, showing lots of partial resists. This was supported by an article about resistances on wowwiki (which clearly mentions that spells can also be fully resisted), and later by the original articles on Resistances by Blizzard, which also shows that spells have a small % chance to be fully resisted, so those proofs work against their case.
Finally, I did a test sample of SoC full resist vs. a boss level on Kronos, and the amount of fully resisted SoC procs in a 5 minutes sample was as low as 2%, which fits the original blizzard's description of resistance mechanics. Just because one video from retail does not show a full resist on Seal of Command, I won't conclude that a SoC cannot be fully resisted ever.

https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread.php/107920-seal-twisting?p=809253&viewfull=1#post809253

Like he try to dodge and lie anytime with excuses ^ . This doesn't seem like "only wikipedia" or "only video" evidence.

Especially not this official Blizzard Website view via Webviewer Archive back in 2005/2006:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060718...ow-europe.com/en/info/basics/resistances.html
Resistance Score----------------50 -100 -150 -200-250
Chance to Resist Spell-----------0%-1%-1%-11%-25%
Chance to Resist 100% Damage--0%-1%-1%-11%-25%
Chance to Resist 75% Damage---2%-6%-18%-34%-55%
Chance to Resist 50% Damage---11%-24%-48%-40%-16%
Chance to Resist 25% Damage---33%-49%-26%-14%-3%
Chance to Take Full Damage-----54%-20%-7%-1%-1%


Since 0.9 Patch Holy Resistance is removed from Table so guess what would be the "Resistance Score" and "chance to resist xx% Damage" for Holy Spells ?! Logic.....

In b4 Psojed :

In case of "SoC can never be a full resist", none their proofs specifies that SoC can never be a full resist

 

[Psojed]

Especially not this official Blizzard Website view via Webviewer Archive back in 2005/2006:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060718...ow-europe.com/en/info/basics/resistances.html
Resistance Score----------------50 -100 -150 -200-250
Chance to Resist Spell-----------0%-1%-1%-11%-25%
Chance to Resist 100% Damage--0%-1%-1%-11%-25%
Chance to Resist 75% Damage---2%-6%-18%-34%-55%
Chance to Resist 50% Damage---11%-24%-48%-40%-16%
Chance to Resist 25% Damage---33%-49%-26%-14%-3%
Chance to Take Full Damage-----54%-20%-7%-1%-1%

Look at the second and third line of what you just posted. It says Chance to Resist Spell and Chance to Resist 100% Damage. That means, your spell is Resisted.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060718...ow-europe.com/en/info/basics/resistances.html

When hit by a spell, you have two chances to resist the spell. The first chance is based on your level. If you are much higher level than the attacking caster, you will have a significant chance to resist the caster's spell, but if you are much lower level, you will have a minimal chance to resist the spell (minimum of 1%). If you make this resistance chance, you are completely unaffected by the spell.

In b4 killerduki:

only because you deny based on your "own" believes.

PS: so according to you, having partial holy resists is just fine, even when there is no holy resistance, but having a full resist is not fine, because there is no holy resistance?

 

[killerduki]

Look at the second and third line of what you just posted. It says Chance to Resist Spell and Chance to Resist 100% Damage. That means, your spell is Resisted.

When hit by a spell, you have two chances to resist the spell. The first chance is based on your level. If you are much higher level than the attacking caster, you will have a significant chance to resist the caster's spell, but if you are much lower level, you will have a minimal chance to resist the spell (minimum of 1%). If you make this resistance chance, you are completely unaffected by the spell.

Here is an example of how various resistance scores play out against level-50 spells:

Binnary

[TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: center"]Resistance Score[/TD]		[TD="width: 15%, align: center"]50[/TD]		[TD="width: 15%, align: center"]100[/TD]		[TD="width: 15%, align: center"]150[/TD]		[TD="width: 15%, align: center"]200[/TD]		[TD="width: 20%, align: center"]250[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 12"]	[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: center"]Chance to Resist Spell[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 15%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 30%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 45%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 60%[/TD] [TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 75%[/TD]

Non Binary

[TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: left"]Resistance Score[/TD]		[TD="width: 15%, align: center"]50[/TD]		[TD="width: 15%, align: center"]100[/TD]		[TD="width: 15%, align: center"]150[/TD]		[TD="width: 15%, align: center"]200[/TD]		[TD="width: 20%, align: center"]250[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 12"]	[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: left"]Chance to Resist Spell[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 0%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 1%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 1%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 11%[/TD] [TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 25%[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 12"]	[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 12"]	[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: left"]Chance to Resist 100% Damage[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 0%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 1%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 1%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 11%[/TD] [TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 25%[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 12"]	[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 12"]	[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: left"]Chance to Resist 75% Damage[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 2%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 6%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 18%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 34%[/TD] [TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 55%[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 12"]	[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: left"]Chance to Resist 50% Damage[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 11%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 24%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 48%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 40%[/TD] [TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 16%[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 12"]	[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: left"]Chance to Resist 25% Damage[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 33%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 49%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 26%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 14%[/TD] [TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 3%[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 12"]	[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 12"]	[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: left"]Chance to Take Full Damage[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 54%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 20%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 7%[/TD] [TD="width: 15%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 1%[/TD] [TD="width: 20%, colspan: 2, align: center"] 1%[/TD]

And Since : 0.9 Patch Holy Resistance is removed from Table guess what would be the "Resistance Score" and "chance to minimum 1% resist" for Holy Spells ?! Logic.....

But anyway your logic reminds me on this picture...

See i have many times shown many different kind of evidence and everything match together..

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Resistance

There is no resistance stat for Holy, and as such no players nor NPCs can resist Holy spells. A character's current resistance score to each school is advertised on the character sheet.

For boss fights, this means there was 15-24 resistance added. This extra resistance meant there would be partial resists on non-binary spells from the added resistance. However, this resistance had been shown to not apply to binary spells at all.

Non-binary spells are spells which only deal damage

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Binary_spell?oldid=886608

Binary spells are spells which can only have full effect (hit) or no effect (resist); partial resists are not possible

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Resistance

For non-binary spells

Resistance increased the chance to suffer only a fraction of the spell's normal damage.
This allowed a sufficiently high resistance to guarantee a certain resist percentage

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Resistance?oldid=343207
Revision as of 21:48, November 25, 2006

effect spells are either resisted or not; damage spells are resisted in such a manner that the average damage is reduced by the resistance effect

Find me a Single Video or any Video from 2005-2006 where you see Seal of Command "Full Resist" , not partial but "Full Resist" ....

Guess what?! you wont.

p.s the Screenshot i posted is just the "Irony" of how it feels "Psojed" Logic and because of his denial how stuffs work very bad in "Server" .

 

[Psojed]

See Lindeman, this is precisely the reason nobody takes them seriously anymore. Killerduki posted his proof, I told him what's wrong with his proof, and he simply posts the same thing again and thinks that answers it.

 

[Cephas]

To be fair, the whole Binary/Non Binary explanation is new

 

[Psojed]

It's quite simple.
Anything that does just damage and nothing else (like Exorcism, Judgement of Command, but also Retribution Aura) is a non-binary spell.
Everything else that does some special effect, or damage + special effect at once (Hammer of Justice, Turn Undead, Vindication debuff) is a binary spell.

What the game does for non-binary spells is basically:
First check: hit or resist
Second check: hit, partial resist or resist (selected from 0%/25%/50%/75%/100% of damage)

Binary spells like Hammer of Justice cannot partially resist, so it would look like this:
First check: hit or resist
Second check: hit or resist (selected from 0%/100% of effect)
Since these two have identical outcomes, the chances combine together.

So if we had a Test Monster which always resist 50% of incoming spell damage.
An Exorcism would have 5% chance to miss and when it hits, it would hit for half damage (half resisted).
A Hammer of Justice would have 55% chance to miss, since the 50% from resistance and 5% from miss combined together.

Since holy resistance got removed, monsters should not have any, which is why you will only see small amount of resists and Holy damage will be partially resisted only when you attack a higher level target than you are. That's also why binary/non-binary isn't very common topic for Paladins.

 

[Blackpeixera]

I completely get what you're saying here, but pretty funny that all this follows you criticising him for not being a native English speaker. His English is better than your own.

No, it isn't, and i'm not a native English speaker either. I'm brazilian. My native tongue is portuguese.

 

[Cephas]

Okay, but according to that table if a mob has 50 res it has a 0% chance to resist a non binary spell. You said all boss mobs have +24 res to all schools because of level difference. So if that is the case there still should be a 0% chance of a full resist on SoC, right?

 

[Psojed]

That's a description from wowwiki. Full quote:

Note: Level-based resistance (not to be confused with level-based miss) could play a factor in total resists. For every level that a mob had over the player, there was 8 resist (believed; the exact number may have been higher) added. For boss fights, this means there was 15-24 resistance added. This extra resistance meant there would be partial resists on non-binary spells from the added resistance. However, this resistance had been shown to not apply to binary spells at all.

If it was true, there would also be a 0% chance to fully resist any other non-binary spell, such as Judgement of Command, but the video killerduki posted earlier (paladin golemagg dps) shows full resists on judgement of command.

PS: heh. Actually there is an explanation. If Judgement of Command was governed by spell hit, then the Judgement of Command full resist can be explained by the first check.

However that goes against http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_Command_(old)?oldid=327126

Unlike other spells, Seal of Command and Judgement of Command are considered physical hits, that does Holy damage. They both use melee crit and hit stats instead of spell crit or hit, and when they crit the damage will be multiplied by two.

 

[Cephas]

But a miss still shows up as "resist" for JoC, so that could have been a miss

- - - Updated - - -

However like other physical attacks, Seal of Command can miss, or be dodged, parried, or blocked. Judgement of Command can only be resisted.

 

[Psojed]

Exactly, that's what I said in my last post. The "first check" is a hit or miss check for spells.

 

[Cephas]

So we're in agreement then?

 

[Psojed]

Like I said, it goes against the quote from wowwiki, which states that Judgement of Command is a melee hit based ability, so either the wowwiki explanation of JoC is wrong or the resistance has different mechanics at lvl 60, or there is a special case.

 

[Cephas]

So you're saying because they follow under the melee hit table that they don't apply to the spell res table that duki posted?

I guess I need this explained to my like I'm a 4 year old. The quote says JoC can only be resisted and all the video does is show proof of that point. So there is no conflicting evidence in the article or video.

 

[Psojed]

I guess I need this explained to my like I'm a 4 year old. The quote says JoC can only be resisted and all the video does is show proof of that point. So there is no conflicting evidence in the article or video.

The quote says JoC can be resisted. But the blizzard's resistance page says that with <50 resistance there is 0% chance to have a resist. We explained that by saying, that Judgement of Command is based on the spell hit mechanics. If Judgement of Command is based on the spell hit mechanics, it cannot be based on the melee hit mechanics.

The linked wowwiki article states that both Seal of Command and Judgement of Command are based on melee hit and crit mechanics = contradiction.

 

[Cephas]

Wouldn't it be obvious to assume he was below melee hit cap and that is why his judgements resisted? Or the page is wrong and it is spell hit and he will obviously be below that, so that is why it resists. What the WoW resistance page says doesn't matter regarding this. Whatever hit JoC is under when it misses it will be read as "resisted".

 

[Psojed]

The page is wrong. I had time to search for more today, and Judgement of Command is indeed a Spell hit based ability, even if it can still proc melee effects. To answer your question, melee hit based abilities always show a miss, while spell hit based abilities always show a resist.

What the resistance page says is very important, since that's the proof of why there should be 0% chance for a full resist on Seal of Command. So killerduki was right. I revived an old report about it https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=2367

@killerduki if you're still reading this thread, look at the report and look how your posts should look like.