Paladin Tanking

[Psojed]

Hi, I suggest you search through the Kronos bug tracker if you're interested about what works and what doesn't. It's open for everyone.

How seal of righteousness work ?

Damage is based on your weapon speed. 2-handed weapons deal higher Holy damage. Holy damage is static ie. always X Holy damage every hit, not X-Y Holy damage every hit. Spelldamage coeff is flat 10% for 1-handers and 12% for 2-handers. Talent and aura bonus works properly.
There's an unresolved bug report regarding SoR proccing on hit effects https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=6785

does Holy resistance exist?

Yes.
https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=2193
https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=6450

does mobs,pets aggro from damaging spells ?

Yes.

how consecration work here ?

Creates a holy area below your feet, dealing damage every second to anything that steps in. Damage ticks stack from multiple paladins. Takes bonus from JotC, aura, Vengeance, 33% Spell Damage and 0% AP. Bonuses are divided into each tick, ie. to gain +10 Holy damage/tick, you need 243 Spell damage. (243 * 0.33 = 80; 80 / 8 ticks = 10 dmg/tick)

does benediction work here?

Yes.

 

[killerduki]

Thank you for all your answer psojed

what rly concerns me are :

answer by Loose:

Originally Posted by killerduki

does healers build aggro on crowd controlled targets ?

Yes

This is the main issue that i temporary stop playing in Nost------ or i might quit there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSVrYCYeKsw - Uploaded on Jul 30, 2006

watch from 00:25 crowd control target should never be affected by healers during the polymorph effect

This is highly gamebreaking protection paladin issue.

another answer that concern me but it still have hope since not yet resolved is seal of righteousness answer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdcWmvxGvoY

1:15 - he swing with seal of righteousness 36 , he judge with righteousness 82 , he use seal of righteousness and hits 35

see how much damage it does for lvl 32
exactly as wowwiki explained in the formula there that damage variate each swing and scaling with weapon min/max etc

according to his judgement , he is using rank 5 which maximum does "according tooltip" 31 damage, but this guy is pushing 35-36 damage because this scale with weapon min/max dmg *0.03 formula written in wikipedia .

also another protection paladin issue that i was curious ^



and my last question is , does multiple ranks judgement of the crusader stack ?

Thank you <3

 

[frederik]

watch from 00:25 crowd control target should never be affected by healers during the polymorph effect

I tank very often too and from what I have experienced healers don't create threat on sheeped targets. They do create threat on banished targets and shackled undeads though and from what I've heard that's normal. I could not remember it correctly from back then, but somebody told me it always worked that way in vanilla.

 

[Psojed]

This is where you will like Kronos, because if you can supply proofs, just like a video that shows something is not working right, it gets fixed.

I can't help you with the healer threat as I never researched that.

and my last question is , does multiple ranks judgement of the crusader stack ?

Thank you <3

Multiple ranks of JotC do not stack.

another answer that concern me but it still have hope since not yet resolved is seal of righteousness answer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdcWmvxGvoY

1:15 - he swing with seal of righteousness 36 , he judge with righteousness 82 , he use seal of righteousness and hits 35

see how much damage it does for lvl 32
exactly as wowwiki explained in the formula there that damage variate each swing and scaling with weapon min/max etc

according to his judgement , he is using rank 5 which maximum does "according tooltip" 31 damage, but this guy is pushing 35-36 damage because this scale with weapon min/max dmg *0.03 formula written in wikipedia .

also another protection paladin issue that i was curious ^

About the swing damage - I believe that it's only a rounding issue, which is why his damage is between 35 and 36, but does not stray anywhere else. I don't think the game actually selects a random number between X-Y for each hit.

For people who want to do some math, he uses Heavy Spear (can be seen at the end) and he has Consecration, which means he might have used points in Improved Seal of Righteousness (but we don't know). Ignoring talents, using wowwiki formula which was finalized in late TBC:
1.2 * (668,676 * MWS / 100) + 0,03 * (MW + mw) / 2 + 1
1.2 * (668,676 * 3.80 / 100) + 0,03 * (102 + 68) / 2 + 1
1.2 * 25,409688 + 2,55 + 1
34,0416256 which does not correspond to the video.

There are more videos showing damage. For example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DymPtTBzB4
At level 9 he has no talents and his spells are rank 1 only. Also, he shows equipment, he uses Pale Skinner a 1-handed weapon.

Using the wowwiki formula for 1-handed this time:
0,85 * (133,488 * MWS / 100) + 0,03 * (MW + mw) / 2 - 1
0,85 * (133,488 * 2.20 / 100) + 0,03 * (19 + 10) / 2 - 1
0,85 * 2,936736 + 0,435 - 1
1,9312256 which does not correspond to the video. Assuming there was 10% coefficient, he gains 2 damage per hit from judgement of the crusader, based on the formula he would deal barely 4 dmg per hit, yet in the video he hits 6-7.

So you see, the formula from wowwiki is wrong. It was never fully explained and in the late TBC there was a statement that it is only accurate for damage ranges up to level 66, at higher levels SoR would deal higher damage. When WotLK came, they datamined the correct formula which was already changed for WotLK - it included attack power coefficient.

For someone interested, here's the wowwiki formula used on wowhead:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071027162920/http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20293
And here's another formula used on thottbot:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070321134849/http://thottbot.com/s20293
There's also some useful info on thottbot, for example

- SoR unarmed (2.00 speed) will do 32 damage. Without talents.

PS: Jumped ingame for a quick test. Currently, SoR damage on the server is tailored so that it corresponds to your SoR spell tooltip. A 3.8 speed 2-hander hit for 71, 2.6 speed 1-hander hits for 53 and unarmed hits for 40 without any spell damage or talent/holy damage bonuses using SoR rank 8.

 

[killerduki]

Thanks for the answers , regarding multiple judgements i will point out later .

This is the formula that i have researching regarding Seal of Righteousness and how it suppose to work

How it should work :

220 (ap according to wikipedia) should give extra 1-2 SoR damage .

Each 1.0 Speed on 1 hand Weapon spell damage (this include judgement of the crusade) should scale by 9.2% (if weapon is 2.0 it should be 18.4% , if weapon is 3.0 it should 27.6% etc).

Each 1.0 Speed on 2 Hand Weapon spell damage (this include judgement of the crusade) Should scale by 10.8% (same story as 1h) .

p.s just to clarify the mistake i made .

It should Variate it's damage each swing between :
2-1 with 1h weapon (example first hit does 56 damage , second hit does 55 damage)
2+1 with 2h weapon (example first hit does 56 damage , second hit does 57 damage)

Weapon Damage also should scale with (example Vanquisher's Sword) 46+86 = 132 where this would benefit 0.03 * 132 = 3.96 damage.

Weapon speed is explained for lvl 60 or 66 (example Vanquisher's Sword) 2.20 speed 2610.43 * ( 2.20 / 100 = 0.022 ) 2610.43 * 0.022 = 57.42946 + (weapon min/max damage) 3.96 = 61.38946

61.38946 + (ap where it is explained 220 = 1-2 damage) 1 = 62.38946 + 9.2% SP Coefficient based on each second (2.20 speed = 20.24 (or 20.2)% coefficient) .

62.38946 (let remove the .38946) will give us 62 damage + 18.4% coefficient . 62 damage will also variate (using 1h) 62 1st swing , 61 2nd swing . (using 2h) 62 1st swing , 63 2nd swing .

Regarding weapon speed , change those values to fit the tooltip and try to experiment my formula to test the damage of the videos i posted and you posted.

Tell me the results


Thank you for cooperation

I tank very often too and from what I have experienced healers don't create threat on sheeped targets. They do create threat on banished targets and shackled undeads though and from what I've heard that's normal. I could not remember it correctly from back then, but somebody told me it always worked that way in vanilla.

This is what Elitistjerks says back in times :

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/foru...g-aggro-on-multi-tanking-ask-for-explanation/

It is possible sheep/shackle/seduce/etc do not generate heal threat while they are CC'd (they obviously would generate aoe/dmg as that breaks CC). In fact, I pretty much guarantee this for seduce at least - if you cast CoS before seduce the mob will aggro you when seduce breaks. Otherwise it aggros the succubus. It won't aggro the healer, who obviously has generated lots of threat while the mob was seduced.


and another poster said :

By drowsy
Posted 20 Apr 2007
I was convinced for the longest time that I was building threat on CC'd targets, until a hunter guildy disputed it and I started paying attention again. He'd trap something, I'd heal up a storm, stop before it breaks, and it would continue to go at the hunter. Same with sheeps, banishes, and probably everything else. Other forms of crowd control cause some amount of threat, and it appears shackle does too.

It didn't used to seem that way with the amount of times I'd get flattened by lava elementals that just broke banish or an Executus add that just broke sheep. I'm of the belief now that those were all due to the fact that most CC'd mobs have next to no threat at the time they are CC'd, and it takes a relatively small amount to pull them right after they break. It's very common to have a heal or renew tick land right as they break, which reinforces the misconception. It took me so long to realize it because previously if I noticed a CC break I would immediately fade, and if I didn't notice there was a mob in my face. Being able to throw a heal safely even when CC just broke is one of the truly marvelous parts of prayer of mending.

 

[killerduki]

Yes i have tested multiple times wowwiki formulas describe on late BC and i got 100% precise on both Videos which is the correct amount.

This is the Formula that wowwiki used in late TBC

https://web.archive.org/web/20071027162920/http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20293#see-also-ability

The level 9 paladin is using Pale Skinner where he shown his equipment
He is using Rank 1 Judgement of the Crusader and Rank 1 Seal of the Crusader

Using wowwiki formula which was finalized in late TBC for 1-handed this time:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_Righteousness_(old)?oldid=1096995

0,85 * (133,488 * MWS / 100) + 0,03 * (MW + mw) / 2 - 1

Using the order of operations by math http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol7/order_operations.html

0.85 (for 1h) * (133.488 * 2.20/100 for weapon speed in tooltip) = 0.85 (for 1h) * (133.488 * 0.022 for weapon speed in tooltip)
(133.488 * 0.022 for weapon speed in tooltip) = 2,936736 (for weapon speed in tooltip)
0.85 (for 1h) * 2,936736 (for weapon speed in tooltip) = 2.4962256 (for weapon speed and 1 hand)
0.03(weapon coefficient) * 29(min+max weap dmg) = 0.87 (from weapon coefficient)
0.87 (from weapon coefficient) / 2 (for 1h) = 0.435 (from weapon damage)
2.4962256 (for 1h +speed) + 0.435 (from weapon damage) = 2.9312256 (weapon speed+weapon damage)
2.9312256 (weapon speed+weapon damage) - 1 (for 1h) = 1.9312256 (seal of righteousness damage)

9.2% per 1.0 weapon speed * 2.20 (weapon speed) = 20.24% (increased spell damage by judgement of the crusade)
20 / 20.24% = 4.048 (damage increase by judgement of the crusade)

1.9312256 (seal of righteousness damage) + 4.048 (damage increase by judgement of the crusade) = 5.9792256 (judgement of the crusade + Seal of righteousness)

assuming the AP (according to wowwiki 220 AP=1 or 2 damage)

example with 220 ap = 1 damage assuming
(21 Ap unbuffed + 20 from blessing of might) = 41 (Attack Power)
(assuming 1 damage) 41 / 220 = 0.18636363636363636363636363636364 from AP
5.9792256 (judgement of the crusade + Seal of righteousness) + (assuming 1 damage) 0.18636363636363636363636363636364 = 6.165589236363636363636363636363 (Seal of righteousness with Judgement of the crusade + 41 attack power using 220 ap 1 damage)

(not sure how he was hitting sometime 7 but he swing mostly 6) but i assume the extra damage variation per chance (which shows the same on every other video from other expansions (TBC and Wotlk)

wowwiki shows 100% precise with the damage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DymPtTBzB4 Uploaded on Jun 12, 2006

The level 32 paladin is using heavy spear (can be seen at the end) and he has Consecration, which means he might have used points in Improved Seal of Righteousness (but we don't know). Also he is using Rank 4 Seal of Righteousness

Using wowwiki formula which was finalized in late TBC for 2-handed this time:

1.2 * (668,676 * MWS / 100) + 0,03 * (MW + mw) / 2 + 1

Using the order of operations by math http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol7/order_operations.html

1.2 (for 2h) * (668.676 * 3.80 / 100 for weapon speed in tooltip) = 1.2 (for 2h) * (668.676 * 0.038 for weapon speed in tooltip)
(668.676 * 0.038 for weapon speed in tooltip) = 25.409688 (for weapon speed in tooltip)
1.2 (for 2h) * 25.409688 (for weapon speed in tooltip) = 30.4916256 (for weapon speed and 2 hand)
0.03(weapon coefficient) * 170 (min+max weap dmg) = 5.1 (from weapon coefficient)
5.1 (from weapon coefficient) / 2 (for 2h) = 2.55 (from weapon damage)
30.4916256 (for weapon speed and 2 hand) + 2.55 (from weapon damage) = 33.0416256 (weapon speed+weapon damage)
33.0416256 (weapon speed+weapon damage) + 1 (for 2h) = 34.0416256 (seal of righteousness damage)

assuming the AP (according to wowwiki 220 AP=1 or 2 damage)

example with 220 ap = 1 damage assuming
(at the very end of the video you could see that he have 300 AP by Gear)
(assuming 1 damage) 300 / 200 = 1.5 (damage gain by AP)
34.0416256 (seal of righteousness damage) + 1.5 (damage gain by AP) = 35.5416256

(not sure how he was hitting sometime 36 but he swing mostly 35) but i assume the extra damage variation per chance (which shows the same on every other video from other expansions (TBC and Wotlk)

wowwiki shows 100% precise with the damage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdcWmvxGvoY Uploaded on Nov 2, 2006

 

[Psojed]

The main issues:

1) wowwiki is not 100% precise, they say it themselves:

The Formula above is only accurate at lvl 66, at lvl 70 the damage is slightly higher. one-handed-weapon : +4.5 (estimated) two-handed-weapon : +9 (estimated) Because the Spell increase with the level of the caster.

2) Formula is from TBC, we are on Vanilla.
3) Formula does not contain SP or AP bonus worked into it, we don't know if it's added before or after the initial damage, this is required if the formula is to be fixed on Kronos.
4) vanilla SoR did not gain bonus spell damage based on weapon speed. See http://forums.elitistjerks.com/forums/topic/9354-damage-coefficients/?page=2#comment-266280 or other sources. Which also makes your calculation for the lvl 9 invalid.

Attack Power does increase the damage done by a very small amount because the formula does use the final weapon damage not the base weapon damage. Using max rank Blessing of Might with a lvl 70 two-handed weapon you will get a difference of ~1-2 damage per hit.

That is all nice, but quite useless until you put the AP bonus together with the rest of the formula. And I want a source for that 220 ap = 1 dmg, which was added by user Colenzo in that exact historical entry you linked from 1. Jan 2008.

 

[killerduki]

well the only formula that did match with both paladins sadly was the one used from wowwiki and per 1.0 weapon speed spell coefficient.

Let find another video and retest with that one too ?

also https://web.archive.org/web/20071027162920/http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20293#see-also-ability was used toward the calculations of wowwiki formula

 

[killerduki]

Can anyone confirm if "Crowd Controlled" target build aggro from Healing during it's CC Effect? Since this is main reason why i abandon nost-----.

They should never build up aggro, so i am curious and want to know if this is working here as intended or not ?

 

[Spazztastic]

I can confirm that paladin healing gets aggro upon hunter ice trap break

However, seeing as you have the sufficient evidence to support your claim, you'll be pleasantly surprised at the staff's response to take action and fix it


https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issues

 

[killerduki]

well i am bad at report , kinda not used to the bug tracker , i will present you the evidence here so you guys can report it since this is extremely bad gamebreaking bug for protection paladin:

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/foru...g-aggro-on-multi-tanking-ask-for-explanation/

It is possible sheep/shackle/seduce/etc do not generate heal threat while they are CC'd (they obviously would generate aoe/dmg as that breaks CC). In fact, I pretty much guarantee this for seduce at least - if you cast CoS before seduce the mob will aggro you when seduce breaks. Otherwise it aggros the succubus. It won't aggro the healer, who obviously has generated lots of threat while the mob was seduced.


By drowsy

I was convinced for the longest time that I was building threat on CC'd targets, until a hunter guildy disputed it and I started paying attention again. He'd trap something, I'd heal up a storm, stop before it breaks, and it would continue to go at the hunter. Same with sheeps, banishes, and probably everything else. Other forms of crowd control cause some amount of threat, and it appears shackle does too.

It didn't used to seem that way with the amount of times I'd get flattened by lava elementals that just broke banish or an Executus add that just broke sheep. I'm of the belief now that those were all due to the fact that most CC'd mobs have next to no threat at the time they are CC'd, and it takes a relatively small amount to pull them right after they break. It's very common to have a heal or renew tick land right as they break, which reinforces the misconception. It took me so long to realize it because previously if I noticed a CC break I would immediately fade, and if I didn't notice there was a mob in my face. Being able to throw a heal safely even when CC just broke is one of the truly marvelous parts of prayer of mending.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSVrYCYeKsw

Uploaded on Jul 30, 2006

(now you would argue that Mage was not healed)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGVuDC16txs
Uploaded on Nov 12, 2006

This is Tank pulling with all the Healers so all Healers are affected by Aggro list of mobs.
Look at 2:33 the polymorph target (sheep) moon run toward mage instead healer.


That's all the evidence you have to prove my claim , problem is that i need someone to take over and report to bugtracker since i can't do that.

 

[Sidney]

Can anyone confirm if "Crowd Controlled" target build aggro from Healing during it's CC Effect? Since this is main reason why i abandon nost-----.

They should never build up aggro, so i am curious and want to know if this is working here as intended or not ?

i've just tanked scholo and yes, our healer has built large amounts of threat while mobs were sheeped/shackled.

 

[Psojed]

problem is that i need someone to take over and report to bugtracker since i can't do that.

Done. I also replied to your post about Seal of Command in the bugtracker. Could you please find some sources/confimation for this?

Even if "white hits" dodge/parry/miss , Seal of Command should still hit the target if it proc.

 

[bl4ckc0d3r]

Seal of Command did at some time get changed to not get dodged/parried etc. (patch 1.5 or something), but later they reverted it. It's working correctly on Kronos.

 

[killerduki]

Done. I also replied to your post about Seal of Command in the bugtracker. Could you please find some sources/confimation for this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk_kHHI0t4o
Uploaded on Aug 13, 2006 (patch 1.11+) date when delay was add toward this seal

Watch 1:16 he parry with his white swing and then with minor delay his command proc , later he uses his hammer of wrath

This mean even if you dodge/parry/miss with white hits with 0.5 delay command should still proc.

(This is evidence for both = it should delay and it should not dodge/parry/miss and even if white hit dodge/parry/hit , Seal of Command still proc and hit the target.)


p.s i find issue how to remove "B" from this letters , it doesn't work sometime

 

[Psojed]

Seal of Command did at some time get changed to not get dodged/parried etc. (patch 1.5 or something), but later they reverted it. It's working correctly on Kronos.

That's not it. He said that when your autoattack does not hit (white Parry), your SoC should proc anyway. [CR]And the video really proves it.[/CR]
Another interesting thing in that video is that he procs Vengeance, yet his autoattack is Parry and his Seal of Command is not a crit.
edit: Actually it doesn't prove it, see my next post below for explanation.

- the delay is in place, only it's not 0.5s precisely, linking my old report here: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?issue=6969

 

[killerduki]

Thank you psojed for your cooperation , you really amaze me for now.

Now i will begin with last few following "critical" steps which honestly are so hard to prove and yet from my 10 years (retail vanilla) experience i have at least managed to find some clues with evidence.

But let me first ask you :

One-handed weapon specialization on prot talent , does it increase our abilties or just white swings?

 

[Psojed]

Actually, I have already solved the mystery of that video. I was searching for the reason why Vengeance procced on that Parry. Luckily, Xolkar has combat log enabled and while his overhead display said PARRY, his combat log actually shows a melee crit. That is the reason why Seal of Command also procced.

edit:

 

[killerduki]

did you notice that the enemy hp didn't gone down or changed number when the parry occure?

it remain same

try to use google chrome and html instead adobe and retest it with 0.25 speed

anyway video still prove that command never parry/dodge/miss , it will be good this to be add to bugtracker too.

back to my question again psojed.

Thank you psojed for your cooperation , you really amaze me for now.

Now i will begin with last few following "critical" steps which honestly are so hard to prove and yet from my 10 years (retail vanilla) experience i have at least managed to find some clues with evidence.

But let me first ask you :

One-handed weapon specialization on prot talent , does it increase our abilties or just white swings?

 

[Psojed]

Command can be parry/dodge/miss.
http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-realm-test/391.htm here a CM explained the change to SoC never made it to patch 1.3.0 in the end.

And here's a SoC miss in a post 1.11 video https://youtu.be/f6SPpRZmuBU?t=258 http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=32621

I have no idea about one-handed weapon spec.

 

[killerduki]

One-Handed Weapon Specialization

According to Wowwiki

See this (evidence) why the topic is Created at 2007 :
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:One-Handed_Weapon_Specialization
O.K, so, I created 2 new pages, a warrior and paladin specific page for this talent, using what this page used to look like as a template. Then updated all the pages that link to the warrior/paladin specific talent, updated the paladin talent on the paladin page and finally changed this page into a redirect page for the classes specific talents. Pro's feel free to undo and correct as you wish
(the actor telling "all the pages" in this pages includes the Vanilla Version too)



This should increase all damage while wielding one hand weap , not just melee attacks

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/One-Handed_Weapon_Specialization_(paladin_talent)

In Vanilla this was 10% , in TBC was Same only reduced/Nerf down to 5%.

See the actor's writing about it before it is updated toward TBC patch :

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/One-Handed_Weapon_Specialization_(paladin_talent)?action=history

This is Vanilla Version:

Rank Increases by
1 2%
2 4%
3 6%
4 8%
5 10%

Description

Increases all damage you deal when a one-handed weapon is equipped.

Note* This should include spell damage dealt when a one handed weapon is equipped.

(This is originally written when it is 10% and not 5%)

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/One-Handed_Weapon_Specialization_(paladin_talent)?oldid=767948

This is the TBC Version :

Rank Increases by
1 1%
2 2%
3 3%
4 4%
5 5%
Description

Increases all damage you deal when a one-handed weapon is equipped.

Note* This should include spell damage dealt when a one handed weapon is equipped.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/One-Handed_Weapon_Specialization_(paladin_talent)?oldid=768020

See how different is between them .

This is WotLK Version

Rank Damage increase
1 4%
2 7%
3 10%

This affects all damage done, not just melee auto attacks.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/One-Handed_Weapon_Specialization_(paladin_talent)?oldid=1962854

All are in description clearly explained that it was increasing all damage instead melee.


(Remember TBC was announced as Nerf that is decreased from 10% down to 5%) .

http://web.archive.org/web/20061110...rcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=11931828&sid=1

Also evidence from original Blizzard forums back in 11/10/2006 (the topic is also confirmed by Blizzard and post as sticky)

4. Re: Geld's Revised Gude to the Paladin Class | 08/25/2006 02:39:50 AM UTC
Talent Guide: Protection The protection tree focuses mainly on tanking, and also increases the survivability of the paladin and his party One-Handed Weapon Specialization (5/5), increases the damage dealt with one-handed weapons by 2/4/6/8/10%

This is a better talent then it appears, since it increases damage done by Seal of Righteousness when you have a one handed weapon equipped as well. Good for threat generation tanking.




Can you please check if this is working as intend in server or not ? since this affect also protection paladin tanking. Thank you for your cooperation.

Command can be parry/dodge/miss.
http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-realm-test/391.htm here a CM explained the change to SoC never made it to patch 1.3.0 in the end.

And here's a SoC miss in a post 1.11 video https://youtu.be/f6SPpRZmuBU?t=258 http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=32621

I have no idea about one-handed weapon spec.

yes you are correct there and i was mistaken.

anyway can you please test one-handed weapon spec and answer since this is major issue

where patch notes says "now increase all damage" but it write "now" even at lich king which is also confusing of how it suppose to work with vanilla as the "blizzard forum" that date back in 2006 also proves that been working there like that either .

 

[bl4ckc0d3r]

Just log in on PTR and test it with a 60 paladin if you need to know result ASAP.

 

[killerduki]

strange i login on ptr , everything is empty and nobody is there , also my paladin is level 1

 

[bl4ckc0d3r]

Well yes, it's public test realm. Rarely anyone is there.

Use .command to see what commands you can use.

.level 60 should do the trick.

 

[killerduki]

have no idea how it work and getting confused with that , only i managed to level 60 , the reason i ask for some of you to do it is that i have never work with this stuffs before and i am bad in bugtracker reporting.