A very sad time on Kronos 2.

[wispx]

To be honest Og, your guild promoted premade shit on this server. Before your premade era, the PVP was amazing. Now it's pure garbage because Horde had to make premades to beat your premades then Colt's team made a premade to counter the Horde premades. You started the chain of this bullshit, nobody else.

 

[Gukki]

wall of text

TLDR: Can't stomp pugs and not skilled enough to beat horde premades so I'm quitting

Lmao see ya!

 

[rhox]

To be honest Og, your guild promoted premade shit on this server. Before your premade era, the PVP was amazing. Now it's pure garbage because Horde had to make premades to beat your premades then Colt's team made a premade to counter the Horde premades. You started the chain of this bullshit, nobody else.

colt never made a premade to counter the good horde premade lol

 

[Oidd]

premades will always be a part of vanilla pvp

make friends and group up to counter them (premade vs premade best thing) or find other ways to have fun if you prefer to play solo (go wpvp, go AV, group with 1-2 friends and annoy premades in wsg)

people that group to dodge other groups are actually hurting themselves foremost in the long run but usually too blind to see it

 

[Lachis]

Two things though, first off there is a sharp difference between farming enemies that are AFKing at the base because you have stomped their group into submission, versus queue dodging so that all your games are free 15v5 wins.

These are 2 extremely different things.

And second, while the 5 man limit on BG groups would be somewhat of a band-aid, it would ultimately take away from the overall amount of tryhardness needed to achieve high ranks, and make it even more of a /played check.

If I'm a Mage playing with a Paladin and a Warrior, and our tactics usually revolve around sheeping enemy healers, then why should I be forced to 5 man queue and get matched with a PuG Druid who thinks its a good idea to Moonfire every Priest he sees? Things like this are completely infuriating when you are playing 16+ hours per day, and these situations are why Premades are a necessary part of Vanilla.

All I'm saying is that dodging is the most lowlife scummy thing you can possibly do in Vanilla PvP, and I have no interest in doing it. For me, the fun of ranking comes from the sense of accomplishment and the challenge, and dodging destroys this.

For me, if that aspect isn't there, then what's the point? Again I hope/plan to resume PvPing on Wednesday. I'm just saying that I would rather not rank at all of the experience is going to be about who can queue dodge the most hours, instead of who can create the most efficient and disciplined premade.

I also think it's a real shame that this early in the server people like me who want to play honestly are basically forced into the decision of play like a scumbag (dodge) or quit ranking

If there weren't any material benefits at the end of the grind then I wouldn't hesitate to agree with your pursuit of "fun" pvp. But the goal is to get the gear, so when you are investing that much time into it you should be doing what you can to achieve the results you desire. Play the game within the game or stop, you know your options.

 

[UDdruid]

i mean, fair play to OG for realizing it, but people have been saying this for weeks now. They were basically told "lol, start a premade of your own, get some friends!" when they stated time and time again that it is the dodging that is the problem, not the premades.

 

[Revo]

time and attitude has changed. ppl now know how to abuse the vanilla pvp system. and they want to abuse it. it has its weak spots, especially for smaller communities (no realm-pools).
in order to compensate such changes, adaptions could be etablished to guarantee a blizzlike feeling

 

[krutopatkin]

dodgers are no life shitters tbh

 

[lanevegame]

Spoiler

The whole philosophy in vanilla is that if you're willing to put in the time, you get rewarded. If premades only faced premades, no one would do it. The reason people do it is because it's the most efficient way of getting honor.

Yes they could if they won again ur mindset is already in losing mode. Ur expecting to not accomplish ur goal with ur group against other groups. This argument wasn't ever about any of this was it?

U just have no confidence in urself or ur teamates. I can't help u there. Maybe title and purples will help u overcome that and I hope they do cause in the end we're all people and I hate the thought of u being so down on urself.

It's ok if u want I'll come over and ever write field Marshall on ur monitor above ur toon so u see it everyday while u go uber leet mode with 9 of ur buddies and beat on people with 1k hp. Luckily nowadays with all the fancy programs for editing u can change that before posting to YouTube and make them all have 5k hp and BiS weapons.

I'm not saying pre mades are bad they are great or that people shouldn't help each other get to the top rank. My argument is that u and ur premade deserve to never have to face any player with any gear possibly better then urs and never have to play any team organized like urs or in comms like its or with right class combo like urs and the entire grind and the meaning of field Marshall to u and ur pvp friends is just something u grind out like ur farming Lvl 50 mobs for some rep. That's what I don't agree with.

I gave u easy way already u can get to rank 10 I believe by killing Lvl 55 horde in the open world u will get guaranteed honor every kill and can do it without any challenge whatsoever. Cause the one thing u have made clear is that challenge is not what ur looking for in anyway.

Dude... sorry but my brain refuses to read that unless you add some commas :wacko:

The best possibly solution I could think of would be Deserter debuff for leaving a group BG queue, something that has been suggest on previous Vanilla servers but never implemented

This seems like a nice compromise to me :yes:

 

[snakitysnake]

Glad you finally woke up to what most of us realized a month ago.

Good job to the rest of you for adapting the retail mentality of "Destination over journey" by the way.

 

[Chrystefano]

It was very fun playing against you guys! I doubt it was as fun for you guys tho, which sucks. I'm against dodging as premade and I hope they do something about it. Hope you come back tho!

 

[Chay]

I'm in favor to give the whole group deserter debuff, but that won't solve the problem completly.
If someone really wants to dodge even with group wide deserter debuff, they will just split into smaller groups or queue single, but coordinate over chat/discord which bg they all join.
People did the same thing to "group" queue for AV, so nothing new.
But in general, a group wide deserter debuff would definitly make the current situation much better, because most premades won't do the single join because it's too much work.

 

[TheOG]

To be honest Og, your guild promoted premade shit on this server. Before your premade era, the PVP was amazing. Now it's pure garbage because Horde had to make premades to beat your premades then Colt's team made a premade to counter the Horde premades. You started the chain of this bullshit, nobody else.

premading =/= dodgemading

I encouraged people to form groups, tryhard, and do their best to win as many games as possible. That is NOT what "Colt's Team" is doing. They are manipulating the queue system in order to only get empty games and farm free Honor.

how are people not grasping the difference between tryhard premading and dodging?

TLDR: Can't stomp pugs and not skilled enough to beat horde premades so I'm quitting

Lmao see ya!

obvious bait, but...

to be clear what happened this weekend is:
1. Last Act group scouts every queue pop to make sure it's not a Horde premade
2. There have usually been 2-4 Horde Premades running at a time, and Last Act drops their queue if they get any of these groups
3. They repeat this process until they get a PuG (usually 15v5, free 5 cap, etc)

Meanwhile, my group has been consistently beating all of the Horde Premades except the "main" Gurtash/Osirus group that is a much stronger team than us in AB.

The problem is that even though my group is beating most Horde Premades, we still get crushed in Honor because we are getting dumped into all of the prem vs prem games Last Act dodges. These games take 15-20 minutes at least for us to win, and if it's Gurtash then we lose. During that time Last Act has played 2-4 free win games and gotten 4x our Honor.

So as you can see if has nothing to do with "being good." It's the simple fact that I'm unwilling to stoop to the level of literally avoiding actual PvP in order to farm ranks.

 

[snakitysnake]

I'm in favor to give the whole group deserter debuff, but that won't solve the problem completly.
If someone really wants to dodge even with group wide deserter debuff, they will just split into smaller groups or queue single, but coordinate over chat/discord which bg they all join.
People did the same thing to "group" queue for AV, so nothing new.
But in general, a group wide deserter debuff would definitly make the current situation much better, because most premades won't do the single join because it's too much work.

The issue isnt a groupwide deserter buff, its that you can leave queue once a game pops without having anybody get deserter. coupled with free accounts and the ability to create level 1 alts of the opposing faction, you can with high reliability figure out if a certain premade entered the game without ever entering the game or risking deserter on anyone.

 

[Horo]

Just boycott the queue if you see premades dodging each other until no games take place, at which point they'll be forced to fight each other. Ez.

 

[TheOG]

While I sympathize with how awful it must be to be an alliance or horde pug at the moment I don't agree with the dodging hate. Before; people who dodged we're "shitters" and had been told to "stay shit". Now the people that are dodging are just "manipulating the system in order to maximize their efficiency". They aren't breaking rules. They are doing what any entrepreneurial entity would do when faced with a problem. How do I get the most honor possible? Avoid games I can't win. The results speak for themselves.

Fact: If you dodge, you are not a PvPer, you are an Honor farmer.

I don't know how you can defend dodging with a straight face, it's literally avoiding actual PvP for the sake of removing any challenge from ranking. That's literally what it is. Plain and simple. Lol

Nobody who's actually respected in the Vanilla PvP community would ever be caught dead dodging to get ranks. And no real veteran PvPer with a competitive mindset would ever stoop to that level. Dodging is pathetic, period.

I don't really care how any of the trolls responding to this thread feel about my decision to jeopardize my ranks by refusing to dodge. Anyone who's opinion I actually value will have nothing but respect for my choice and I'm 100% sure of that.

Anyway cya in the BG

 

[bl4ckc0d3r]

You people talk as if the people farming BGs for their weapons care what you think about them or dodging.

 

[rebel88]

premading =/= dodgemading

I encouraged people to form groups, tryhard, and do their best to win as many games as possible. That is NOT what "Colt's Team" is doing. They are manipulating the queue system in order to only get empty games and farm free Honor.

how are people not grasping the difference between tryhard premading and dodging?


obvious bait, but...

to be clear what happened this weekend is:
1. Last Act group scouts every queue pop to make sure it's not a Horde premade
2. There have usually been 2-4 Horde Premades running at a time, and Last Act drops their queue if they get any of these groups
3. They repeat this process until they get a PuG (usually 15v5, free 5 cap, etc)

Meanwhile, my group has been consistently beating all of the Horde Premades except the "main" Gurtash/Osirus group that is a much stronger team than us in AB.

The problem is that even though my group is beating most Horde Premades, we still get crushed in Honor because we are getting dumped into all of the prem vs prem games Last Act dodges. These games take 15-20 minutes at least for us to win, and if it's Gurtash then we lose. During that time Last Act has played 2-4 free win games and gotten 4x our Honor.

So as you can see if has nothing to do with "being good." It's the simple fact that I'm unwilling to stoop to the level of literally avoiding actual PvP in order to farm ranks.

I know for a FACT that Last Act has only been dodging Gurtash etc.. They might have dodged Chrys when you guys started dodging aswell, but if you have watched streams lately they have faced them loads of times.

If you watched the streams you could also see that LA actually won over Gurtash premade twice. But I guess it is not efficient honor. They are afterall trying to dethrone the premade who had member which directly said they "own" 1-12 standings... Remember that you guys have been throwing games all weekend to Gurtash aswell, by letting them instantly 5 cap.

Btw alot of horde premades are dodging LA now, it is basically only Chrys prem or Gurtash premade that wants to fight.

And why did all this start? Well obviously because Remedy got dodged by EVERYONE during the endless WSG weeks, where they got 3 cap in under 6 minutes every game. Take a look at Orgrimmar during these times and how everyone spams which games are Remedy lol.. How do you counter that as a alliance premade that gets stuck with literally every horde tryhard?

 

[archyo]

OG, you fail to understand that you created this problem.

Dodging is just another way of tryharding. You created this environment, where it's all about pushing honor to the absolute maximum. REMEDY ruined BG's on Kronos 2 and now they are bitching about a tryhard environment, which they created themselves.

 

[bukando]

Wipe rank 6+ ppl, fix queue, allow party join (not raid), gg win. RIP Kronos 2

 

[perpxgodx]

do you boys measure your cocks from where the balls end or at the very bottom of the shaft?

idk if the latter is cheating

 

[wispx]

Wipe rank 6+ ppl, fix queue, allow party join (not raid), gg win. RIP Kronos 2

Good idea. Should petition it. They really suck the fun out of this servers for thousands of people. Don't want even more people quitting because of it.

 

[snawfu]

do you boys measure your cocks from where the balls end or at the very bottom of the shaft?

idk if the latter is cheating

I measure my cock from the bottom of the shaft, latter is defnitely cheating.


And to all you fucks asking for a queue system change: this is literally one of the reasons pvp on Nostalrius died, piece of shit queue system which enabled the Chinese to run an industry where they farm and sell ranks, premade spots, ranked characters; and accountshare soloqueue to the top standings wrecked it all.

Since accountsharing seems to be allowed here in the first place (wasn't on Nost), implementing a queue system that enables you to solo to highest standings, will fuck you all up.

I mean shit, if they do manage to fuck up the queue system by implementing "solo queue, or premade priority", I'll try my best to get people together, on an account that doesn't go offline, just to shit on your standings to prove a point. - Let's hope it doesn't go to that.

 

[UDdruid]

pvp on nostalrius was way way more healthy than pvp on kronos 2.

It was still shit, but not as bad as the status quo.

 

[TheOG]

pvp on nostalrius was way way more healthy than pvp on kronos 2.

It was still shit, but not as bad as the status quo.

speaking strictly for the PvP server, before the implementation of custom queue that started the age of China wintrade...

It was better on Nostalrius because Premades that accepted every queue and dominated all or most of their opponents always beat out the dodgemades in Honor (assuming the played the same amount). The Premades that dodged could never keep up with the legit Premades.

This is mainly because the legit Premades would face a tough match every 3-4 games or whatever, and therefore easily still be able to farm good Honor.

K2 is small enough that once 1-2 groups on your own faction start dodging, you get dumped into 90% prem vs prem games that the other guys dodged.

When you have a massive player pool like Nostalrius, dodgemades can't completely break the system. But on K2, other Ally groups dodging has basically forced my "honest" group into a situation of ONLY fighting Horde Premades.

The dodgemades farm free 5 caps while the legit/honest Premades are left fighting all of the long, drawn out prem games that the dodgemades are making pop then refusing to enter.

K2 PvP is going to continue to deteriorate unless something is done to prevent dodging. Need to implement deserter for dropping a group BG queue, or at least make using level 1 spies and dropping from games with ALT F4 bannable.

And to the people respond saying disabling group queue is the answer: Premades aren't a problem. Dodging is a problem.

And lastly to the people pointing out that my group has mercilessly farmed PuGs in WSG for weeks - this is true, but we have also had countless tough games against various versions of the Osirus/Gurtash group, and more recently a few other Horde prems.

There is a H U G E difference between what we have been doing in WSG (accepting every queue and simply playing the game, max tryhard) and what some groups are doing in AB this weekend (dodging/opening games, avoiding real PvP, manipulating the system to farm Honor).