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    TwinStar team

A very sad time on Kronos 2.

wispx

wispx

New Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Location
England
This server had so much potential to become a great PVP server but a select few had to ruin it.

Why do you allow premade vs. PUG to exist in every single que?

Is nothing going to be done again this? Hundreds/thousands of people have stopped PVP'ing due to this disgrace of a community who only make premades.

Seriously. When will this be fixed? In retail Vanilla I never played vs premades. I spent 10 hours a day in PVP and now I just logout after 1 BG against them awful Remedy and Last Act players who are only good when in a group of 10-15.

It's really sad and I just needed to vent this since lots of my friends have quit the server to play on other servers where there is none of this premade vs pug crap happens.
 
I've posted on this subject on Reddit and I'm going to again here. The que for K1 and k2 needs to merge for 60s. Currently the server has multiple personalities. If ur leveling it's a super busy packed server but if ur 60 it's like ur on a dead server that blizzard refuses to close or merge. Until the population at top end is healthy enuff to support reasonable time ques at one time for AV WSG and AB at 60 at which point it can be seperated again if that's wanted by community. The best way to fix the issues isn't by punishing people doing it. I mean any smart small community would win trade till they are geared it actually can even be made as an excuse that pvpers are just trying to make sure everyone has a full set of pvp gear before they actually start pvp boing so the fights are fair.

Merge the ques which will also support a AV at 60 too. Give servers something to compete over as well and when the player base is settled and pop is good at 60 let the community then decide to keep it or seperate servers again.
 
Merging queues? On k1 bwl is out for
christ sake. This is how it's always been.
You want to rank, join a pre. Just because
you can't beat them doesn't mean they ruined
pvp. Join a pre, start your own or don't
bother ranking. Punishing someone for putting
in more effort and devotion than you is Just
stupid. You can't put in the time/effort,
you don't deserve the rank/gear.
 
I'm not complaining about the players. I'm offering a way for the ques to fill up and more people involved. Also who cares about bwl. Gear is the excuse losers use. And if u get fast ques it won't be long until ur similarly geared or just a tier below. Right now no one even is pvping they are just no play gearing up and no one not in a pre made can even enjoy losing a game for some honor much less winning one. Also AV is a big deal right now neither server can support one on their own but both could and AV is def able to be won with strat so gear isn't as great of an issue.

Also both sides benefit it's not like k1 horde alliance team up against k2 horde and alliance. Both horde and alliance teams will have players mixed with gear ranging from fresh 60 to bwl full tier. So it makes no difference if BWL is out
 
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On K2 when facing a premade people just stand AFK in base whilst other team does the exact same. What kind of PVP is this? No I will not join a premade and promote the destruction of PVP. Premades disgust me when on a server like this, just ruins fun for thousands of others. Literally have about 2 friends left out of 30 on this server now as they have all left to play a server with a decent PVP scene.
 
Yes, because those 250 extra spellpower and those 5% extra spellhit won't make a difference at all. Of course gear matters. If 2 equaly good premades face eachother, but one is significantly better geared than the other, they will win every time. This will be massively unbalanced and we will end up with zero pvp on k2. This would become even worse when AQ40 hits on k1. Then the gear difference will be massive. This is simply not even close being a valid option.

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wispx said:
Literally have about 2 friends left out of 30 on this server now as they have all left to play a server with a decent PVP scene.
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I'm sorry this isn't for you, but it's how it's always been. Changing key elements in the game to promote casualizm is what happened to retail, and is not what vanilla is about.

Another server might suit you better. Or retail.
 
There is nothing 'casual' about pug vs pug and every game in retail vanilla was pug vs pug. 1 in 50 games was MAYBE be a premade but that was it. I have played 21 games today and gained 2k honour.
 
Ok so then what a k2 pre made should never face any competition and just get to stomp on random fresh 60s and then go round saying their leet. No u que premade u fight a premade if they out gear u oh well that's the whole point of the challenge u get better and out play them. Ur view is crazy. Not fair for k1 premade that could have better gear to beat on a k2 premade but it's ok for a k2 premade to beat up on under geared randoms. That's pvp to u that's what makes u a good player in ur eyes? That's completely insane as a argument.

U que premade u fight premade u get good or u get stomped and excuses are just that. U don't however get to beat up on under geared randoms while never having to face anyone grouped with comms and geared just like u.

Shared ques allows randoms to fill fast and pvp to be organic and real and fun. Ques pop and teams are 5 k1 ally and 5 k2 ally any gear against same set up horde side. Making the content released on k1 meaningless since both sides benefit.

If u want an easy field Marshall title just go to feralas and beat up 55s to hit ur weekly points needed. Personally with what u view as being good pvper means I would never accept a title over my head taking easy road being a big man only in my own eyes and fake all over the rest of me while making the excuse of I'm still gearing up everytime I lose a fight so much that u start to believe ur own lie that gear is gonna make u good and when u get the gear then just making new excuse about lag or other class OP.

It's pvp nothing feels better then beating a person who out gears u nothing ever in pvp period. That's what u focus on beating up the bullies not trying to be one.

I mean how many vids of 2v1 and 3v1 around? Did those players stop and say I'm gonna lose to this group cause I'm just one and combined they have hundreds in stats then me and double my CDs and cc. No they man up and outplayed the other 2 or 3 enemies. That's a goal that's pvp not loling in vent while u roll thru guys in greens with no healers while ur wearing MC gear then go stand in IF with ur title like u did something.
 
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So you're implying ranking takes skill? Never have, never will. Just because you play more and earn more honor doesn't make you better, and the fact you belive that's what I'm implying even though I've never said so, makes me belive you're not qualified to understand the concequences of what this would bring.

The whole philosophy in vanilla is that if you're willing to put in the time, you get rewarded. If premades only faced premades, no one would do it. The reason people do it is because it's the most efficient way of getting honor.

What would happen then is that people would account share and afk their way to r14. That happened on Nost. Your solution is to punish the rankers who's been premading 12 hours a day for months because you're not skilled enough to get a premade? Get a grip you crybaby. " I can't do it, therefore it must be broken".

Believe it or not, but this is completely fair. You can do it as well if you bothered doing it. The gear differences between k1 and k2 however, would not be fair. And if you can't see that, there's no point in arguing with you.

Go play something else if this doesn't suit you. No one is stopping you.
 
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God, I can't believe people make 5 new threads about this every day, really getting sick of it..


First of all, to all those who cry about people grouping up for battlegrounds, anyone sane who's going for high ranks and isn't a masochist will do it in a premade. The grind is hard already as it is, why would anyone willingly gimp himself even more by choosing to do it alone in shit PuGs and at the end get overfarmed by 0-24h online chinese backpeddal-AFK-account sharers who are going to sell characters after R14 and make their grind last even longer by doing so?!!


On the other hand asking for staff to remove group queue just because some people have social skills equal to potato cuz spent their whole life in mom's basement and can't make connection with anyone or too shit to actually be useful and invited to some group is just plain retarded.. Guilds pick good players who can interact with others to kill raids as efficient as possible, premades do the same in PvP... Acting solo hero in Vanilla rarely helps you win in any organized part of the game.

I`d understand if you cried about random overgeared players premading to stomp PuGs for fun (which is not cool), but blaming group of people who rank and help each other to make the hard grind as painless and possible makes no sense at all.


If you are ranker and want to do it alone, idk what to tell you, most people don't enjoy no-lifing and spending 15 hours a day in front of computer for weeks and if they can do something as simple as grouping up with other players to avoid it, it's common sense to do so. On the other hand if you just queue for couple of games every few days, look at the other side of the medal, if you were ranking, would you rather spend whole day for 2-3 months in battlegrounds with AFKers/midfarmers who drive anyone who play objectives crazy or half of that amount of time with people who actually play to win. Pretty sure anyone with a brain would pick this 2nd option.


And besides, premade vs premade is the real thing in Vanilla pvp, everything else is just a minor league compared to it.. So many people cry about the dominant premade on another faction, but none of them actually try to group up and figure out the way to beat them.. That disgusts me so much. Trust me, that premade doesn't enjoy farming pugs a single bit, but they are smart enough to make their grind easier at least, and you by not giving them any challenge at all ruin PvP from their point of view aswell. How good premade vs premade games are always determined the quality of server, not PuG vs PuG.
 
dude I can't answer that I mean if u think I'm punishing pre made pvpers by making them pvp at a higher Lvl and holding the title above them as something of value cause they have to fight other premades. U think hitting invite is an accomplishment u literally are so out of excuses and any type of argument that ur resorting to attacking me by saying I can't invite people to a group. That's not even the argument that's where u have gone cause u can't even make sense of ur view point anymore and are grasping for some way to respond and get even with me.

Ur view ... Premade pvpers on comms with the best gear server offers as of the content available should not have to go against any other player or team of players who could possibly have few items better then theirs. So they have earned right to just beat up on randoms who aren't allowed to complain about the same imbalance the premade group complains about because the premade used the invite key 9 times. That some spirit or strength or int is what makes u a good player not cause u actually know what ur doing. I guarantee u anyone who is true pvper doesn't give a shit if someone has 100/200/1000 more in a stat they gonna beat em cause they better. I mean again u see vids of 2v1 and 3v1 fights where one guy kills all of them what did stats mean to the losers there? They had 200x 300x more stats then the guy who killed them.

I can't go any further u want a vanilla experience and u are using the purist excuse but ur mentality is one of the guy who buys field Marshall in the server shop if they offer it. Cause ur mindset is no different u want free title and gear and will cry ur eyes out at any form of competition to earn it. I can't even prove u wrong anymore I'm arguing with a guy who's highest rating was almost getting back to 1500 rating u were given when season started and ur mindset proves that.

I bet u love ashran too huh?

Coming here saying how dare I expect u to have to earn the title u wear and make u have to pvp against others with those titles. U don't get to be a field Marshall by only fighting privates. That's not a field Marshall. Ur title is there to show the minimum quality of player u should face and just like when I raid u fight bosses better then u who out gear ur group. Same in pvp u shouldn't even take the time of day to engage a opponent not wearing same title as u or better.

I mean I'm sad I'm sorry I'm done with this. Ur literally making everyone feel sad for u.

- - - Updated - - -SAREI QUOTE

And besides, premade vs premade is the real thing in Vanilla pvp, everything else is just a minor league compared to it.. So many people cry about the dominant premade on another faction, but none of them actually try to group up and figure out the way to beat them.. That disgusts me so much. Trust me, that premade doesn't enjoy farming pugs a single bit, but they are smart enough to make their grind easier at least, and you by not giving them any challenge at all ruin PvP from their point of view aswell. How good premade vs premade games are always determined the quality of server, not PuG vs PuG.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I love this. Pre made v pre made was the pinnacle of vanilla pvp. It's what u want it's what u can brag about. It's a challenge u can overcome and accomplish with ur team. That's what pvp is about beating who ur not supposed to beat proving the people who doubted u wrong.

Pvp is not crying that it's unfair someone with fancier weapon killed u and u just wanna go back to being the one who always has the fancier weapon and beat up on under geared randoms with ur full group. Haha I can see u now never accepting a duel in front of IF using excuse I'm field Marshall I don't have to fight u but meanwhile being so scared ur gonna be exposed and lose to dude in blues and greens.


And of course I never complained about people helping people out. It's impossible in vanilla to reach max rank without the cooperation of every other person going for it that week. It takes horde and alliance players communicating and deciding that week who gets the make top rank and the rest Backing off. That's how it's set up and really only way to do it.
 
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The whole philosophy in vanilla is that if you're willing to put in the time, you get rewarded. If premades only faced premades, no one would do it. The reason people do it is because it's the most efficient way of getting honor.

Yes they could if they won again ur mindset is already in losing mode. Ur expecting to not accomplish ur goal with ur group against other groups. This argument wasn't ever about any of this was it?

U just have no confidence in urself or ur teamates. I can't help u there. Maybe title and purples will help u overcome that and I hope they do cause in the end we're all people and I hate the thought of u being so down on urself.

It's ok if u want I'll come over and ever write field Marshall on ur monitor above ur toon so u see it everyday while u go uber leet mode with 9 of ur buddies and beat on people with 1k hp. Luckily nowadays with all the fancy programs for editing u can change that before posting to YouTube and make them all have 5k hp and BiS weapons.

I'm not saying pre mades are bad they are great or that people shouldn't help each other get to the top rank. My argument is that u and ur premade deserve to never have to face any player with any gear possibly better then urs and never have to play any team organized like urs or in comms like its or with right class combo like urs and the entire grind and the meaning of field Marshall to u and ur pvp friends is just something u grind out like ur farming Lvl 50 mobs for some rep. That's what I don't agree with.

I gave u easy way already u can get to rank 10 I believe by killing Lvl 55 horde in the open world u will get guaranteed honor every kill and can do it without any challenge whatsoever. Cause the one thing u have made clear is that challenge is not what ur looking for in anyway.
 
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Of course premade vs premade is fun. But it wil never get you to r14 if every game is against a premade, lasting for hours. You will be outfarmed by pugs. This isn't a matter of skill, but it's a matter of efficiency. If you couldn't reach rank 14 with a premade, no one would do it. IT is clear that you don't know how the honor system work.

Also, the fact you're calling me lazy I find funny, seeing as I've reached my desired rank on k2, and gotten exalted with both WSG and AB. Something you're clearly not, or you wouldn't be here.

Also, your conclusion that I don't trust my teammates, where did that come from? You draw comparisons like a child. If you think ranking is easy, you've never done it. It's not a matter of skill, but dedication.

I like to fight premades, but if I'm not gaining anything from it other than "street cred" because pugs will outfarm me even though I play more than them every day, then no thanks. Your credit means nothing to me, and never will. If my goal is to hit r10, then I will do it as efficient and fast ad possible. Not spend 2 extra months so someone like you would respect me. You're not worth it.
 
Vanilla PVP was never like this. Every game is vs a premade now and it's quite honestly disgusting. RIP Kronos 2.
 
Every private server is like this in terms of the amount of Premades. It's the result of natural meta game evolution that people have figured out its most efficient to rank in Premades.

Premades are not the problem, dodging is the problem. By dodging I mean the practice of Premade groups that "scout" games and/or drop queues to avoid fighting enemy Premades.

I myself was unfortunately forced to stop playing today despite the fact that I am in the thick of my rank grind. Why? I strongly disagree with dodging, and so does most of my Premade group, but this weekend we have found ourselves in a situation where other Alliance groups are manipulating the queue system in order to only fight PuGs. This leaves my group getting dumped into nearly all of the games against enemy Premades that other groups like <Last Act> are refusing to enter.

My group was faced with the decision to give up for the week on Honor, or to begin dodging to keep up with the others pace. The group as a whole decided to dodge, so I left because I am strongly against it.

It's a real shame that things are already at this point so early in the server. On Nostalrius, the sheer polulation and amount of players PvPing made it difficult to dodge efficiently/reliably, and so dodge groups could never take the top standings from the superior groups.

Unfortunately this AB weekend has proven that Kronos 2 is small enough that something must be done about dodging.

The point is that PuG players would have a better experience and Premades would be forced to (at least sometimes) fight each other if a mechanic was put in place to prevent dodging.

The best possibly solution I could think of would be Deserter debuff for leaving a group BG queue, something that has been suggest on previous Vanilla servers but never implemented

TLDR = Premades aren't the problem, dodging is the problem. There are honest players like myself that simply want to play in a group with others that have consumes/engineering and a tryhard attitude. People like me are not ruining PvP. The people dodging are ruining PvP.

I'm over and out till Wednesday since this weekend has turned into dodgefest 2016
 
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If I got a premade 1 in every 2 games I would be very happy. I wouldn't mind 50% against premade but getting premade every game for 25 games in a row is just boring. I am glad you have decided to stop Og, hopefully the others follow trend. I don't understand why people can't just enjoy the game, there is no enjoyment I'm sure in having the whole team AFK in the other base.

How about cap the amount of people who can que together to 5. Would be great. Playing against a 50% or 33% premade in any game would be fine.
 
wispx said:
If I got a premade 1 in every 2 games I would be very happy. I wouldn't mind 50% against premade but getting premade every game for 25 games in a row is just boring. I am glad you have decided to stop Og, hopefully the others follow trend. I don't understand why people can't just enjoy the game, there is no enjoyment I'm sure in having the whole team AFK in the other base.

How about cap the amount of people who can que together to 5. Would be great. Playing against a 50% or 33% premade in any game would be fine.
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Two things though, first off there is a sharp difference between farming enemies that are AFKing at the base because you have stomped their group into submission, versus queue dodging so that all your games are free 15v5 wins.

These are 2 extremely different things.

And second, while the 5 man limit on BG groups would be somewhat of a band-aid, it would ultimately take away from the overall amount of tryhardness needed to achieve high ranks, and make it even more of a /played check.

If I'm a Mage playing with a Paladin and a Warrior, and our tactics usually revolve around sheeping enemy healers, then why should I be forced to 5 man queue and get matched with a PuG Druid who thinks its a good idea to Moonfire every Priest he sees? Things like this are completely infuriating when you are playing 16+ hours per day, and these situations are why Premades are a necessary part of Vanilla.
 
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Currently in an AB with 50% of your old premade and 50% pug and it's a fairly fair game, you guys are winning but at least we are getting kills and honour and will get a mark.

Mk and Mortiaz are pretty bad players but their gear is good now after all this dodging so it's quite an even fight.

This is a fun AB. Let's keep it like this! :)
 
OG, you are so ignorant that you don't see that you created this problem yourselves. You were the first premade to mercilessly stomp pugs for 16 hours a day. You created the trend with pushing honor to the absolute maximum, instead of enjoying PVP and BGs. You refused to go Azuregos because REMEDY revolves around the 5 people pushing r14, must feel great to be in that kind of guild.
 
While I sympathize with how awful it must be to be an alliance or horde pug at the moment I don't agree with the dodging hate. Before; people who dodged we're "shitters" and had been told to "stay shit". Now the people that are dodging are just "manipulating the system in order to maximize their efficiency". They aren't breaking rules. They are doing what any entrepreneurial entity would do when faced with a problem. How do I get the most honor possible? Avoid games I can't win. The results speak for themselves. Sure change the system, people will find ways around that too. It's always going to happen. People are always going to push boundaries and get away with as much as they can with what is allowed. That's the world you live in.

As far as being strongly opposed to the status quo and thus negatively impacting yourself.... that's on YOU. Don't blame the people dodging for ruining YOU'RE experience. YOU choose to not be a part of it so YOU must live with the consequences of not reaping the same benefits. If YOU want to be in a group that "try-hards" then form a group that does that. Live with the consequences of YOUR decision. If YOU don't get top standing by doing that it's YOUR fault. A square peg doesn't fit cleanly into a round hole. YOU decide how things play out, the others don't decide that for YOU.
 
TheOG said:
.......... it would ultimately take away from the overall amount of tryhardness needed to achieve high ranks, and make it even more of a /played check.
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You're implying that the only way to achieve high ranks is to try hard. What if there are people who feel the same way about using consumables/engineering and meta game faction/races to pvp with. These people don't deserve a chance to get high ranks? This point you made while a valid opinion is weighted towards you're own idea of "working" to get high ranks. There isn't one concrete way to do anything, so taking a holistic 100% firm opposing is closed-minded and archaic. Where is the compromise between try hards and non try hards and ranking? Until you can figure this out the status quo is the status quo.

(also not looking for you to link your q system you "implemented" on nost)
 
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Sarei said:
On the other hand asking for staff to remove group queue just because some people have social skills equal to potato cuz spent their whole life in mom's basement and can't make connection with anyone or too shit to actually be useful and invited to some group is just plain retarded..
Click to expand...

STOP SAREI
YOURE GONNA TRIGGER 95% OF VANILLA PLAYERS AAAAA
 
Lachis said:
You're implying that the only way to achieve high ranks is to try hard. What if there are people who feel the same way about using consumables/engineering and meta game faction/races to pvp with. These people don't deserve a chance to get high ranks? This point you made while a valid opinion is weighted towards you're own idea of "working" to get high ranks. There isn't one concrete way to do anything, so taking a holistic 100% firm opposing is closed-minded and archaic. Where is the compromise between try hards and non try hards and ranking? Until you can figure this out the status quo is the status quo.
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You literally just said absolutely nothing. Like read what you wrote... what?

But all I'm saying is that dodging is the most lowlife scummy thing you can possibly do in Vanilla PvP, and I have no interest in doing it. For me, the fun of ranking comes from the sense of accomplishment and the challenge, and dodging destroys this.

For me, if that aspect isn't there, then what's the point? Again I hope/plan to resume PvPing on Wednesday. I'm just saying that I would rather not rank at all of the experience is going to be about who can queue dodge the most hours, instead of who can create the most efficient and disciplined premade.

I also think it's a real shame that this early in the server people like me who want to play honestly are basically forced into the decision of play like a scumbag (dodge) or quit ranking
 
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