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    TwinStar team

Against Dire Maul being open from the start.

Mentat said:
Would actually like to see DM released later as well. Would likely make MC just a little harder and keep the gear gap between hardcore / casual players at least a tiny bit smaller
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I think that it would increase the gap between casuals and hardcores even more, if DM is delayed, since even the casuals can easy clear DM and get the gear, while hardcores will raid MC whether DM is released or not.
 
Definitely delay it. I posted on this subject on other servers forums, not gonna dig it up or post a whole lot about it again but I agree with the OP. I would rather do everything the way it was intended from the start, get the most blizzlike feel as possible and have a legit hardcore progression race. The progression is the fun part, not farming. IMO, don't release SOME things based off first kill. Release DM on a time schedule rather than after the first kill of Rag or something since in retail the first Rag kill came after DM. Wait so many weeks or even do it based off when Majordomo is killed since it was released in between Majordomo's demise and the first Rag kill. Let the hardcore players attempt Rag w/o OP gear.
 
Bitw said:
I would rather do everything the way it was intended from the start, get the most blizzlike feel as possible and have a legit hardcore progression race. The progression is the fun part, not farming. IMO, don't release SOME things based off first kill.
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First off, lol @ thinking there is progression on a 1.12 server. Maybe when Naxx comes out, i can see progression happening.

Second, Dire Maul being released from the start is the least of your concerns. Molten Core will be a cakewalk regardless of DM being out or not. The fact that we have much better gear overall and much better talents over trivialize how Molten Core was intended.

If you want to play PVE content as it was originally intended, then i suggest you waiting until Naxx is out. Perhaps a 1.12 server will get this raid 'right'.
 
U will get in any dungeon BIS stuff even BRD and ST, so in the next step u may want to close every dungeon where better stuff as it would in mc drops? Btw some pre raid stuff is better then T2..
 
Zed said:
U will get in any dungeon BIS stuff even BRD and ST, so in the next step u may want to close every dungeon where better stuff as it would in mc drops? Btw some pre raid stuff is better then T2..
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BRD and ST was released alongside MC. DM was released later.
 
Qiyn said:
First off, lol @ thinking there is progression on a 1.12 server. Maybe when Naxx comes out, i can see progression happening.

Second, Dire Maul being released from the start is the least of your concerns. Molten Core will be a cakewalk regardless of DM being out or not. The fact that we have much better gear overall and much better talents over trivialize how Molten Core was intended.

If you want to play PVE content as it was originally intended, then i suggest you waiting until Naxx is out. Perhaps a 1.12 server will get this raid 'right'.
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Man, we all already know that you want to have MC harder than it is in 1.12.1. Please stay closer to the topic. You've written 3 comments here and I can't even understand whether you're for DM delaying or against it :)
 
Sorry =).

I'm against it. My reasoning: If they don't buff Molten Core to compensate for the many buffs players received over the patches leading to 1.12, then i don't see a reason in leaving DM out of the game.
 
You guys have a generic private server DM in mind were each boss run takes 10-15 minutes.
This is not the case here. Its a grind like any other instance.

Why delay it? Cause there is slightly better gear then from other instances in some slots. Yes, some slots, not all.

Why not to? It doesn't matter much. The difference is not as huge as some believe it is.
 
Oh, Lharts is for having DM upon release? Can i change my original decision?
 
Lharts said:
Why delay it? Cause there is slightly better gear then from other instances in some slots. Yes, some slots, not all.

Why not to? It doesn't matter much. The difference is not as huge as some believe it is.
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Right!
So I need to post this again:

For a holy paladin:
EP pre-raid without DM : 808
EP pre-raid with DM : 998 so +190
EP with DM+MC+Ony : 1110 so +112

You'll get way more out of DM that you'd get out of all MC and Onyxia...

It's an easy way to remove some insane gear.
Even if everyone call MC easy, wipes will happen. And even more without DM's gear.
 
EP is always a matter on how you scale each stat. I've never seen anyone in vanilla use it.
Post on which system your numbers are based on or they don't mean anything.
 
Sure, I'll do it.
The point is not about you scale EP, but that if the margin is that wide, it's because the items are much more powerful.

Healing : 1
Int : 1.89
Mp5 : 3.84
Crit : 15

This is rough average value. You could actually modulate it for each fight, depending on how often you cast or how bursty your heals need to be.

So if you could/would invest all in 1 stat, DM would give you 190 healing, or 100 int, or 49.5 mp5, or 12.5% crit.
Do this on 40 players, then tell me it wont impact at all your ease of clearing MC.
Yes, it'll still be easy, we got it. Only slightly harder. Maybe enough for some wipes and slow down some guild's progression.
 
Teppaz said:
So if you could/would invest all in 1 stat, DM would give you 190 healing, or 100 int, or 49.5 mp5, or 12.5% crit.
Do this on 40 players, then tell me it wont impact at all your ease of clearing MC..
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what 40, you take hpal as an example, who can equip anything.
Normal classes get 1-3 items, only the trinkets(both mp5 and the class ones)
being worth mentioning as op
 
Teppaz said:
Healing : 1
Int : 1.89
Mp5 : 3.84
Crit : 15
Click to expand...

The problem about a system like this is that it does not take progressive scaling or degressive scaling into account.
Tankstats also tell you that 1def > 1stamina. Yeah okay, but that only applies up to a certain point.

For a paladin there are only 4 items I would DEFINITELY take from DM. The 2 mp5 trinkets, the hands from DM north (51 heal) and maybe the 31 heal (x mp5) belt from DM east. The last one only if I couldnt get the random drop from Scholo or Sash of Mercy. Pants, depends on how lucky I get with Scholomance random drops too.
Since you run Scholomance like a mad man for the Libram its more then likely you will get one or the other random drop heal item. The trinkets are also replaceable with Burst of Knowledge and Second Wind.

For any good item from DM there is a more or less equal (sometimes slightly inferior, sometimes even better) item available somewhere else. Thats what I meant when I said that its not as good as some make it sound.
 
What you think abount blizzlike timeline?
1)MC+Ony at start (23.11.04)
2)DM, Kazzak, Azuregos after 4 months(7.03.05)
3)BWL after 4 months(12.07.05)
4)ZG after 3 moths(13.10.05)
.... etc.

And no problem with DM )
 
This is true for some classes (like mages, crit doubles of value from MC to Naxx), it is not the case for Paladin. Anyway, I wont bother giving some Paladin's BiS list here, but you have 8 upgrades in DM on 17 slots. Some are huge, some are not. (Plus a 9th tied with an UBRS drop)

It is true that the difference is less for some others classes, but the point is the same.
You get a nice boost from DM, and not opening it is an easy way to make MC a tiny bit harder.

But whatever, i dont mind having DM open, we'll just be that much more powerful.
And it's not like anyone is going to convince the other side here, I'll be happy to play whatever Chero decides.
 
I get that it's not a big deal, I really don't care myself, but there's really no reason on why it shouldn't be pushed back.
 
I do like the sound of tiered dungeon progression. There has been a lot of discussion on the pros and cons...and I have nothing to add except that I really like the idea, but I am happy with whatever.
 
Don't really see the point of this. It was added to the game not even three and a half months after WoW went live, and it was quite a different case back then. Not a lot of people were even Level 60, and for those that were, a majority weren't already progressing MC and Ony. Here, it'll be a lot different. We know everything about vanilla, we quest much more efficiently and we gear much more efficiently. The playerbase will be progressing thru MC and Ony pretty quickly after getting to 60.

Locking off DM for a couple months may be Blizzlike on paper, but won't actually have a Blizzlike effect on the game. The playerbase isn't Blizzlike, certainly not end of 2004 to early 2005 Blizzlike. No point in it.
 
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