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    TwinStar team

Against Dire Maul being open from the start.

True enough Mariah.
I'm generally more concerned about having 'so' much to do once hitting 60. Then getting a little bored, and wishing something else would open while we are waiting for BWL to start.

DM staggered can do a lot for the server.
All other dungeons will be given its fair share of enjoyment while we still have excitement knowing that DM will open a little later.

Keep the fun flowing.
 
As you know yourself, BWL worked before so it won't take that long to realse it after launch.
 
We just dont know the raid release schedule.

If they want the server to have a long life, it may be delayed to give enough players time to have stomped all over MC and Onyxia for a few months before they may want to open BWL.

If they rush release all the raids when the bosses are all downed, we are rushing the life of the server.
As much as I cant wait to get back into AQ and Naxx :)
 
wrathix said:
We just dont know the raid release schedule.

If they want the server to have a long life, it may be delayed to give enough players time to have stomped all over MC and Onyxia for a few months before they may want to open BWL.

If they rush release all the raids when the bosses are all downed, we are rushing the life of the server.
As much as I cant wait to get back into AQ and Naxx :)
Click to expand...


It's true we don't really know the exact release schedule(as in dates), but we know that:

Available at launchAvailable at launchRelease shortly after Ragnaros’ demiseRelease shortly after Blackwing LairRelease after completion of War Effort and Scepter of the Shifting Sands chainRelease at some point after C’thun’s demise

[TD="width: 35%"]Onyxia’s Lair[/TD]
[TD="class: alignRight, align: right"]

[/TD]

Molten Core

[TD="class: alignRight, align: right"]

[/TD]

Blackwing Lair

[TD="class: alignRight, align: right"]

[/TD]

Zul’Gurub

[TD="class: alignRight, align: right"]

[/TD]

Ruins of Ahn’Qiraj

[TD="class: alignRight, align: right"]

[/TD]

Temple of Ahn’Qiraj

Naxxramas

[TD="class: alignRight, align: right"]

[/TD]



"Shortly" and "at some point" are ofc very unsubstantial measures of time. "Shortly" may be a few months or a few weeks. I am not really sure which I prefer, but that's prolly because my life is a bit tumultuous atm, and I thus can't really tell which fits me best.
 
There are so many factors influencing the raid releases so it would be dangerous to put dates on it because it makes assumptions about population, progression and development.

For example, if 1 guild kills the last boss but then all the other guilds fail to kill it for months, is it really necessary to open the next raid then?

Longetivity is fine. You are only done with vanilla if you have a character of every class with bis gear.
 
jorim said:
There are so many factors influencing the raid releases so it would be dangerous to put dates on it because it makes assumptions about population, progression and development.

For example, if 1 guild kills the last boss but then all the other guilds fail to kill it for months, is it really necessary to open the next raid then?

Longetivity is fine. You are only done with vanilla if you have a character of every class with bis gear.
Click to expand...

Indeed, there are many things to take into consideration. I was really just conveying what we "know", or what the "plan" atm is. Only thing to do is to wait and see^^
 
Still my ultimate point comes down to giving the other dungeons some time in the spotlight before the general population will be "LFG DM"

However you see it, DM will be run more than all the other dungeons. Lets enjoy the original stuff for a while first please Chero :smile:
 
wrathix said:
DM will be run more than all the other dungeons.
Click to expand...

LBRS
Scholo
Strat (A/B)
Dire Maul East
Dire Maul Nord
Dire Maul West

Depending on the definition DM makes up 50% of the lvl 60 Pre-Raid content. Well, duh, of course there are more runs.
Its a nice addition to the other instances. DM is more event based in contrast to the usually pretty linear dungeons.
 
Isn't it true that gear you could get in other instances got upgraded at some point to make it easier for people to get geared up properly for raids? If you don't make Dire Maul accessible from the start because of the reasons mentioned you'd have to use older versions of that gear too. Seems like a lot of work to me. Other than that Dire Maul is my favorite instance and I want to get in there asap :yes:
 
You always have this arrogant 'know it all' type of attitude Lharts
I saw it ingame when Kronos was active and held my breath. I see it in your posts all the time, and im calling you out.

Way to miss that Blackrock Spire is also two parts.
LBRS/UBRS + BRD was always also considered an end-game instance if you are going for the emp.
Don't ever fucking DUH me.
I was 60 before u even stepped foot in this game, and know what happened to the other dungeons when DM released. They became an after-thought as DM runs are quick in comparison.
 
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While BRD has some good items it can not really be considered 60 content. Even the relevant bosses are way below that lvl.
UBRS is a raid. LBRS could also be considered a raid. So I only included LBRS into that cause its mostly used as a 5 man instance (or 1-2 more ppl).
You can argue about Strat beeing 2 parts each. Still, no matter how you put it DM makes up the majority of 60 pre raid content.
Players get bored easily, giving them more stuff to do right after launch helps to prevent that.

Sorry for pulling a "duh" on you. While your argument about DM beeing the most run instance was true you left out an important detail -> DM is most of the content.
Its like say that statistically male drivers cause more accidents while not mentioning there are also more male then female drivers to begin with.

You always have this arrogant 'know it all' type of attitude Lharts
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I hear that alot from people who don't actually know me. Guess what, I don't care.
 
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I am fine with both routes, since i hope to be in the majority of players who will play any dungeon anyway.
 
Yeah, can't say I'm really bothered regardless of how this turns out.

Maybe it's because I never actually set foot in Dire Maul during my vanilla days.
 
Good argument Sivo. I say this in many post, just don't min-max your raid (until AQ40 Naxx that is) and allow (some) people to hybrid in your raid. This will add the increased difficulty everybody is looking for in the beginning.

Or bring fewer, less competition for loot.
 
Having DM be a part of a progressive release, if anything, makes MC that much more difficult, and therefore closer to being pre 1.12.1, without actually having to script it differently, and then change the scripts back once the server decides to be fully 1.12.1.

There are lot of things you can do to make MC and BWL more difficult, and there are a lot of changes prior to 1.12.1 that are worth mentioning, BUT... for the sake of the developers and the server having a consistent feel, why not just look at the major aspects. DM is around 50% of level 60 dungeons, and a lot of the gear from there is either equal to or better than MC.

If you want the first couple tiers of raiding to feel more "vanilla" than keeping DM out for awhile is an easy way to accomplish that.

I don't think having your guild make a habit of taking less optimal specs is a realistic idea, and I don't know why any guild would tell any of their members it's okay to "just don't min-max." MC and BWL can still be a challenge and fun without shooting yourself in the foot. One of the ways is to have DM come out sometime around/after the release of BWL.

I'm not arguing for either side. I've been on servers that allow DM at release and some that haven't. It really doesn't make a huge difference if you're part of a group that knows what they're doing.
 
As much as I understand the point of this thread, I'd also like to point out that the world first Ragnaros kill was not until April 25, 2005 (a month and a half after DM was released). Holding back the release of DM for the sake of making MC more difficult doesn't make any sense at all because people had DM gear long before Rag died and all of the other boss kills were made within twenty days and more than two months before the first Rag kill.

If we're going strictly by how it was back in the day, DM is not going to make any difference with the first set of bosses and making everyone trudge through trying to kill Rag for more than two months is not going to be beneficial to the server (we play for free and few people will wait around for it).
 
Cyndan said:
As much as I understand the point of this thread, I'd also like to point out that the world first Ragnaros kill was not until April 25, 2005 (a month and a half after DM was released). Holding back the release of DM for the sake of making MC more difficult doesn't make any sense at all because people had DM gear long before Rag died and all of the other boss kills were made within twenty days and more than two months before the first Rag kill.

If we're going strictly by how it was back in the day, DM is not going to make any difference with the first set of bosses and making everyone trudge through trying to kill Rag for more than two months is not going to be beneficial to the server (we play for free and few people will wait around for it).
Click to expand...

Not to mention high level dungeon gear was complete shit for the most part pre-1.10, and so were talents for every class. Keeping DM locked out will still not replicate a true Blizzlike feel because we have end-game vanilla dungeon gear and revised talent trees. It is impossible to replicate Blizzlike that far back.
 
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