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Silithyst Geyser - Nerf / Remove

sushibarf

sushibarf

Authorized
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
I've been playing PvP active on this server since the release.
We all know the current PvP situation and how it affects the server.

I don't want to make this thread into a discussion whether premades are killing the PvP scene or if we need a .bg command.

What I have noticed over the last month is that more and more people stop queueing BG's and rather farm Silithyst Geyser to gain honor (200 honor for 1 geyser).

Yes, we all want that high standing at the end of the week, but these things are ONE of the reasons PvP is 'dead' at the moment.

And since these people don't queue for BG's, more people start doing it since they also want to gain honor and that is the only way without BG's.

And no, the Geysers don't really increase World-PvP that much.

I'd like to use this thread to discuss your opinion on changing the mechanic of Silithyst Geyser.

I got 3 suggestions myself:

- Remove honor gain from turning in Silithyst Geyser (you only gain the 30 min buff)
- Increase the respawn rate from 15 min to 1 h
- Remove them completely (temporary?)

Yes, this is not blizzlike. But pretty much every person I've asked can't remember people farming these things on retail vanilla in that high extent as on Kronos... (Yes, people also didn't play that good on retail vanilla, but you get what I mean).
 
I definetely agree that something must be done about PvP. Whenever a random queues he can either find a lucky spot on a horde premade or, what happens more frequently, find Nerdstark's premade and get honorfarmed. Both possibilities are, in my opinion, bad, and also give a bad image to the server.
But, since you cant force people to stop premadeing, what needs to be done is that more people queues BG, just as sushibarf said above.
BGs need to be promoted. Why are there 2 alterac valleys opened at the same time on AV weekend (+people waiting outside), but we can hardly fill 2 warsong gulch on the wsg weekend? We dont lack players; people are just not queueing.
Thats why pvp must be incentived: if 80 hordes are playing AV, why cant there be 8 WSG opened at the same time, too? If there are many BGs actives and just a couple premades, you'll have little chances to find one. And this would also make it harder for Nerdstark to avoid the horde premade with his level 1 orc, "Nedscout", so he can easily play against random pugs.

Maybe the solution is what sushi said on the OP, or at least it may help a little. Maybe there should be more incentivation to play BG, both from the players (as Horo does on alliance) and from the Devs. I really don't know what, but something must be done.


P.S.: Queue Arathi Basin this weekend you slackers!
 
Leido said:
Why are there 2 alterac valleys opened at the same time on AV weekend (+people waiting outside), but we can hardly fill 2 warsong gulch on the wsg weekend? We dont lack players; people are just not queueing.
Thats why pvp must be incentived: if 80 hordes are playing AV, why cant there be 8 WSG opened at the same time, too?
Click to expand...

Because PvE players queue AV to get items for their raids. (Current BiS caster offhand etc.)
There are alot of people (mostly on alliance side) that queued BG's just to gear up for PvE.
They farm Rank 8/10 and you hardly see them ever again.
Not to mention the Rank 14 players that stop PvP...like what?!
 
Sands farming is just rediculous. This only works cause the rankers have little to no competition. If sandfarming nets more honor then then losing constantly, something is seriously messed up.

AV is played so much cause you can not get farmed really. Everyone can kill anyone. Even PvErs that just spam 1 ability into a zerg. AB and WSG are far more even sided and therefore offputting for players that just want to PvP some in the leisure time.
Now on the other hand, if more players would go for WSG and AB you'd have much more pugs going making the point towards AV almost obsolete again.
Of course you get farmed by premades, if premades are the only ones left Qing.

I love PvP, but without constant PuGs, premading is pretty bullshit. It hurts 90% of the players while 10% get what they desire. Remove it alltogether and yes, premaders will cry their eyeballs out. On the other hand you make PvP much more enjoyable for the majority of players.

PS:
Regular scenario on almost every server I played so far.
Faction A has stronger PvP community
Faction A farms Faction B in BGs
Faction B gets upset and quits
The remaining players of Faction B start premading to win
Faction B wins and pretty much steamrolls Faction As pugs
Faction A starts premading too
Faction B farms PuGs and gains ranks very easily
Faction A gets into games every few hours/or 10-30 minutes
Faction A premade loses vs Faction B premade
Faction A premade starts pugging again cause otherwise puggers outfarm them
Faction B can now do what every they want as they almost have no competition anymore

Which is which was different throughout all servers I played. Mostly B was alliance though.

TL;DR
#nosand
 
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Hey I'm random r5 player that did a week of AV and am now a certified full time pvper that does not have the capability to put together my own group of players and face premades and thus whine on everyone ahead of me in honor. Maybe I should hire 5 full time sandfarmers to get me that sweet st1 so I can one day be called Unbreakable lord of Shamans.

And yes, remove honor gain from Sand - it's absolute cancer.
 
Agreed with Sushi,something needs to be done about silithus either remove honor from capping sand or increase respawn timer to like 1hour.But atm silithus is killing bgs
 
Well as the premades seem to be dodging (untill 5pm when the ally premade is "done")
New players that join get stomped, decides that its not fun and wont queue again.

I love pvp, its the most fun thing to do in the game, but even I wont queue wsg atm because its just cancer.
 
I know a guy who got R10 mostly (?) "on sand". It's definitely not right. But I still think that geysers concept is not bad enough to be removed entirely.

So, few concrete suggestions:
1) Dinamic "antispawn" timer. The less people in Silithus, the more spawn timer is. The more people in Silithus, the less spawn timer is - until 15 mins, of course. Looks the most logical, since current situation may be considered as some people abusing the low competition in Silithus.
2) Reduce the amount of honor twice. At the same time, create a "Silithus weekend" on a place of no-BG-weekend: increase the amount of honor in this weekend - make it 400. So Kronos players could have more wPvP sometimes.
3) Simply reduce the amount of honor twice.

P.S. Why "twice"? Well, I once read a book "Computer games: how to do it" (couldn't find an official translation, it's by Mark Zalcman), and there was a tip of a famous computer games designer or something - tip about balance: if something is wrong, reduce/increase the parameter involved two times; it may look too much, but you'll be surprised how precise it is actually.
 
#nosand

+1 for option 1) - Remove honor gain from turning in Silithyst Geyser (you only gain the 30 min buff)

noones cares about the world pvp anyways, plenty to be had when you really look for it (plus, theres still silithus farmers that you can world pvp if thats what you desire)
 
Speaking as one of the few rank 14's on the server, I defanitly agree on removing / nerfing geysers in Silithus. It made my life cancer on my road towards rank 14.
 
* remove/reduce honor from geyser
* remove premaid queing
If those two things are done we can finally have some (kind of) balanced bgs.
Ofcourse ppl will que at the same second to get into same bg but it will be much harder to coordinate than a normal premade.

If removing premading completely is too much, maybe limiting it to 5ppl grps would be a first step. Even though a good 5 man can carry a wsg, they cant roflstomp as much as a 10 man!
 
As a PvE player I want to point out that any increase in the spawn timers will not only affect the PvP but also the PvE. A few of us raidprep with that buff and it would punish us a huge deal. So from my PoV, a decrease in Honor gain would be welcome over a timer increase.
 
I feel this is a band aid response to a much larger issue...the issue of a small/selective PvP population.

The alliance premade just farms 200k of honour for the week then stops, then the Horde premade takes over...and leaves normal PuG'ers who wish to have some PvP fun in the dust and disheartened.

So instead of issuing reactive solutions to minor problems, we should move further down the line to the root of the issue and make proactive steps to fix that. In the last few days the talk of migrantion has been a hot topic. Maybe the team can introduce a week/2 week long increase xp rate boost (like some weekends on retail) to possibly entice new players in...this is a long term investment and we won't see the effects at 60 for a while. But if we can increase the total server population enough that it provides a big change to the 60 population. That will fix, or help fix, a lot of the PvP issues. I feel the issues of Premade's still needs to be addressed.

Nonetheless I don't think we need to start changing details. The Silithus Geysers promote world pvp and their honour gain is attractive to a lot of people...enough so that is causes WPvP to fight over these limited Geysers. I have had alot of WPvP fun in silithus fighting off Geysers that the alliance have nabbed.
 
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Struckd said:
The alliance premade just farms 200k of honour for the week then stops, then the Horde premade takes over...and leaves normal PuG'ers who wish to have some PvP fun in the dust and disheartened.
Click to expand...

look 2 months back in time, the alliance premade was pretty much unstopable. Now that's not the case anymore. Everytime the highranking players reach their goal, they dissapear from the queues and the rest of the team will be that much weaker.
It's not going to take long before another alliance premade can be formed which is just as good as the one that will be left when nedstark and vipergodx are done with the farming. If 2 serious premades on the same faction is going on, then none of them will get away with playing only 4 days of the week.

As for pugers feeling disheartened. I assume they will be just as disheartened if they had tried to raid blackwing lair with a raid found through the world channel. PvE guilds have an easy time to form premades because epic gear immediately turns a shit team into a somewhat decent team. But a serious group of actual PvP players using blue gear even, will tear up any decent premade out there.
And to any serious PvP players out there who feels lonely cous you have nobody to group with - i honestly haven't found a premade yet that wouldn't accept any blue-geared player who knows what he's doing, into their group. Either youre not as good as you think you are, or your attitude is shit, or both.
 
Seems like the community is overwhelmingly on the same page here. Someone made the case that messing with respawn times could mess with PVE as well, so the best solution for this particular problem seems to be; remove honor gain from geyser. Lets hope Kronos team lissens to this suggestion.
 
I can assure you that the alliance pre-made won't stop anytime soon. I assume this also applies to the horde. I've been posting a few macros on alliance side to help people find their own raison d’être in pvp. Of course, 5 is the number of my world chat channel. Here are some examples:
/5 Daily reminder for pvp #1: With pvp rank 2, you will be able to buy the Insignia of the Alliance which helps you escape various otherwise mortal predicaments!

/5 Daily reminder for pvp #2: With pvp rank 3, you will get a 10% discount on any repairs or items bought from *any* NPC (includes mounts and riding skills).

/script local chp = "\124cffffffff\124Hitem:18839:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0\124h[Combat Healing Potion]\124h\124r"; local cmp = "\124cffffffff\124Hitem:18841:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0\124h[Combat Mana Potion]\124h\124r"; SendChatMessage("Daily reminder for pvp #3: With pvp rank 6, one is able to buy "..chp.." "..cmp.." for only 8 silver each!", "CHANNEL", "COMMON", 5);

/5 Daily reminder for pvp #4: If you pvp for half an hour every day, a Nigerian prince is going to give you $1.000.000!

/5 Daily reminder for pvp #5: You thought this post would contain some trivia about pvp and it's benefits, but it was *me*, DIO!

/script local chp = "\124cffa335ee\124Hitem:18241:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0\124h[Black War Steed Bridle]\124h\124r"; SendChatMessage("Daily reminder for pvp #6: With pvp rank 11, one is able to buy "..chp.." for only 8g! Mechano Strider, Ram and Tiger are also available", "CHANNEL", "COMMON", 5);
Please give me more ideas if the mood takes you and feel free to modify and use these macros yourself.

Godspeed.
 
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