OnslaughtFei
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hey man its not abuse. i asked davros if it was cool with the gms and the current rules. i even made sure all my characters were 60.
Silithyst Geyser - Nerf / Remove
- Thread starter sushibarf
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Currently it's not against the server rules, however imo it's not "cool". But this is one of a number of topics set for discussion on the slate for our team meeting in a few days. So while it's currently not against the rules, there may be changes moving forward. If there are, the server will be made aware of them so that there's no excuse in not knowing
Lharts
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Judging from all the comments on wowwiki and wowhead the item has the same properties as the WSG flag, together with some additional traits such as movement speed decrease and dropping it when attacked, leads me to believe that porting should not be possible.
The comment section in wow head has some players explicitely stating which abilities can be used while carrying the sand. Warlock summon is not mentioned.
Surely, if you just disable the whole honor gain from this bullshit it won't matter anymore.
The comment section in wow head has some players explicitely stating which abilities can be used while carrying the sand. Warlock summon is not mentioned.
Surely, if you just disable the whole honor gain from this bullshit it won't matter anymore.
OnslaughtFei
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I think warlock summoning in general on the server is severely abused. Especially world boss locations and our characters in VG have all been told to get level 20 warlocks at Emerald Dragon/World Dragon/Raid spots. Silithyst warlock summoning might not "be cool" but neither is world boss full raid summoning.
I agree that sand is stupid but its not the problem. I, for the record, have no issues with removing the honor gain from it. The real problem is low population. You remove sand and you are only introducing new behavior that will be just as bad.
Stalling a WSG out to milk HKs while your competition sits in queue outside the portal? Check. Hunting down, farming and camping as many level 49-59 levellers as you can to gain honor, thus potentially fatally damaging the population of the server? Check. Not playing to objectives like guarding a flag in Arathi Basin, a flag carrier on the roof in WSG or guarding a graveyard in AV because theres more honor on the front lines? Check.
There's an extremely limited amount of BGs that occur. Getting R14 will become a test of other abuses when there's not a place to just farm it. Guarantee'ing #1 will be impossible without even dirties tactics. Like it or not at least silithyst sand is a place where honor farmers can go and the only reason people dont like sand is because BGs arent popping at all times. In scenarios where BGs pop at all times, no one would ever dare think of running sand and I dont think enough Alliance will continue to queue if you remove sand. Currently there is less than half a dozen regular Alliance honor farmers in the current ranking meta.
Most of what we fight in BGs these days are horde alts anyway. And its very easy for them to get top 20.
I agree that sand is stupid but its not the problem. I, for the record, have no issues with removing the honor gain from it. The real problem is low population. You remove sand and you are only introducing new behavior that will be just as bad.
Stalling a WSG out to milk HKs while your competition sits in queue outside the portal? Check. Hunting down, farming and camping as many level 49-59 levellers as you can to gain honor, thus potentially fatally damaging the population of the server? Check. Not playing to objectives like guarding a flag in Arathi Basin, a flag carrier on the roof in WSG or guarding a graveyard in AV because theres more honor on the front lines? Check.
There's an extremely limited amount of BGs that occur. Getting R14 will become a test of other abuses when there's not a place to just farm it. Guarantee'ing #1 will be impossible without even dirties tactics. Like it or not at least silithyst sand is a place where honor farmers can go and the only reason people dont like sand is because BGs arent popping at all times. In scenarios where BGs pop at all times, no one would ever dare think of running sand and I dont think enough Alliance will continue to queue if you remove sand. Currently there is less than half a dozen regular Alliance honor farmers in the current ranking meta.
Most of what we fight in BGs these days are horde alts anyway. And its very easy for them to get top 20.
bl4ckc0d3r
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Stop being lazy and not wanting people who are more dedicated to outperform you and level some yourself.
Pikkuhousut
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There are more active Sand farmers on Horde than on Alliance side. Alliance has less players in silithus farming sand and are mostly outnumbered in regarding silithus pvp activity. Biased comment on your behalf.
True.
Imo the whole point of the sand return is to avoid combat and make the way to the transformer. Hence blizzard introduced the slowing etc. effects on the debuff. Summoning yourself with a warlock alt is just clearly abusing the mechanism and at least breaking the spirit of the game. My 2 cents.
You know clearly why Alliance PvPrs go to Silithus.
But here is a recap in case you forgot, Eljay:
1. Horde "PuG" WSG groups beat even the premade Alliance groups today, due to more experienced, tryhard and geared players. Alliance is missing core classes (Mages, warlocks etc.) ranking, resulting in horrible melee oriented groups against priests, mages, shamans and warlocks. Horde are using free action potioning, limited invulnerability potioning, all grenades and devices for a victory. Leading to a result where Alliance players dont even get a single flag cap in multiple consecutive games and get only a handful of honorable kills that transform into peanuts in honor. Bear in mind that alliance does not get the same benefit from a FaP than horde, since Horde shamans can dispel it, something only a priest on alliance side can do.
2. Due to the pvp scene being as stated in part 1., those Alliance players who farm sand in Silithus (aka Sachikomoe with the help from Arcanum 10 hours a day) get a competitive advantage over those Alliance players who would rather play battlegrounds, hence killing the queues for the horde. Now, you should know this, Eljay, since you've been boosting Sachikomoe yourself for the past few weeks and thus making the pvp situation rather difficult for other rankers on Alliance side.
How to fix this?
- Pray for the miracle of Alliance getting a handful of dedicated and capable casters ranking. Other than that, alliance is just being walked over by horde game in and game out. I dont blame anyone for not queuing for a WSG where you just get farmed at graveyard.
p.s. I love it how you, Eljay, are blaming Alliance for the pvp woes of this server. It is the few active alliance pvprs who initiate Arathi Basins during the week, who get Alterac Valley to pop as early as possible and try to cater to the needs of the server as whole. Trying to get out of Silithus is a common goal for all of us, but the way Arcanum is stepping in to boost an Alliance player in ranking, is not really helping the case. Why? Refer to the 2 points before.
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Nailed there.
More players would be the cure to everything. You can log your alts, ask the other faction to queue, discuss on the forums, all you want. But when it comes down to actually go out there and bring new players, how much are you doing?
Very recently, at least two players I managed to convince to roll here instead of Nost. If every Kronos player (hell, even just every forum user) would bring 2 players to the realm, all of (y)our troubles would be solved for good. Don't you get it?
Go here and waste 10 minutes of your time everyday. Where there's a will there's a way.
You and I are in total agreement. It will be discussed at today's meeting with extensive evidence I have been gathering over recent weeks/months
I also agree that the low pvp population hurts it a bit. We are working hard on a few things that we think will help bring in more interest to Kronos, which we hope will result in increased player base over time. We have a lot of ideas and are always looking for more ways to help make Kronos a more active and fun community that players want to be a part of. Player run tournaments is something we're happy to promote because it promotes community involvement. We as a team are more than happy to work with any player to try and help any way we can to promote our community.
Sands has been quite the debate for quite some time, with arguments to be made on both sides. Todays meeting we will discuss it in length. We're open to ideas, but we're also very well aware that there is no "one" answer that is going to make everyone happy.
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Zerocool
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I want to suggest there that again you can use the blizz nerf down to 19Honour. In that matter you don't loose the honor giving from the sand tho you dis-encourage the "farmers" and instead of trying farm rather entering a BG will force them to move into a BG. People are always looking for the easy way of things.
OnslaughtFei
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You are looking 1-3 alliance farmers for sand at a time.
I find there is an absurd amount of people who dont understand what the grind to R14 is like. Sometimes a little as only 3 BGs will pop a day. Removing sand isnt gonna change that into 24/7 BGs. If honor farmers cant farm sand they will farm people trying to quest instead.
Warlock summoning isn't being abused, it's being used.
There is nothing unfair about the warlock summoning, anyone with a few hours on their hands can easily level their own warlock and accomplish the same thing as the people they are complaining about. This is a case of people being lazy and not wanting those trying harder to get an advantage.
Warlock summoning was used by hardcore guilds in retail vanilla too, the big difference being relying on someone else to log their level 1 clicker, unless you want to pay the premium for extra accounts.
It will be discussed at today's meeting with extensive evidence I have been gathering over recent weeks/months
Just make sure you don't punish people for spending time and effort on their character and guilds.
Removing warlock summoning because some people don't want to level their own is akin to removing consumables because some people don't want to spend time farming them but still be able to compete at the highest level.
Gathering herbs and crafting potions makes you more effective at killing dragons.
Leveling warlocks and placing them at strategical positions makes you more effective at getting to dragons quickly.
Peasemold
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- Apr 12, 2015
Abusing the fact you can make infinite accounts does not equal farming consumables.
Leveling them with software is considered spending time and effort? http://forum.twinstar.cz/showthread...-Ermlockony-Ermlocksand-Ermlockyojam-Nedstark
I don't think the possibility to punish those who use warlock summoning has ever crossed anyone's mind at all.
Only two things should (maybe will) be taken into consideration: nerfing the honor gain for sand turn-ins, and the advantage of multiple, free accounts that you can have on Kronos but couldn't in 99% of cases take advantage of during vanilla retail. I don't believe warlock's summon should be removed altogether either, probably a long enough cooldown would still do for a "blizzlike" usage of the spell while preventing/greatly limiting its overuse here.
Only two things should (maybe will) be taken into consideration: nerfing the honor gain for sand turn-ins, and the advantage of multiple, free accounts that you can have on Kronos but couldn't in 99% of cases take advantage of during vanilla retail. I don't believe warlock's summon should be removed altogether either, probably a long enough cooldown would still do for a "blizzlike" usage of the spell while preventing/greatly limiting its overuse here.
bl4ckc0d3r
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Pease, moderators won't let my reply to that thread go through yet for some reason (feels like taking my voice away when I am accused) so I feel like I should explain it here. Those in Westfall are my warlocks and that video clearly shows wands firing as a quick stream of bolts, not all at once. Obviously shows that I had half a second (or less) delay between each successive bolt due to lag of me clicking on another client and executing my "assist leader and wand his target to death" macro. The video clearly proves my innocence.
Both that guy who reported me and all you people here are pure haters. You want to get me banned for playing for 12 hours yesterday running my 5-men macro army around doing quests? Well go ahead Kronos, submit to fools and those who hate anyone doing something they don't feel like doing themselves.
And Hagson is right - where do we draw the line? What I see right now is a lynch mob with their pitchforks and torches wanting to burn us down for doing something they aren't used to doing and they don't think they should change to using now because they aren't used to doing it so far. However, since it's a good thing and gives one advantage in game, we shouldn't be allowed to use it either so that we can't gain that advantage over them despite the fact that we are willing to invest the time needed into it and most of them are not. It's a witch hunt on Vanguard for being imaginative and thinking how to minmax in all aspects of the game. You say it's not the same as consumables? Oh yeah, why not? Both are widely-accessible things, difference is only that people are used to doing one (consumables) and aren't used to doing the other (summon alts).
Stop the witch hunt and punishing people for being dedicated to the game and hardcore, please.
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tekai
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Wouldn't that only lead to even more warlock alts? Besides, depending on how long it is players leveling and forming groups for dungeons, or raiders, event makers could be hit by it.
What about no summons in an y yard radius around object/boss/npc if npc is alive/dead, or no summons in the area if condition x? (okay, that's becoming a bit messy to code)
bl4ckc0d3r
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Yes, let's nerf the game down to its dumbest/laziest way of using it so all the average people can feel good about themselves since no one is allowed to act more intelligent anyway. Seems you lot really want a blizzlike (vanilla 2005) experience where no one has a clue about the game and everyone fails miserably at everything.
What's next thing someone is going to cry about? Should we make a rule that forbids any one faction to engage a world boss until a sizeable force from the other faction arrives because that's the way it was done back in the day? Huge world PvP over it? Any more suggestions on how to make our realm more vanilla-like and dumbed down?
What's next thing someone is going to cry about? Should we make a rule that forbids any one faction to engage a world boss until a sizeable force from the other faction arrives because that's the way it was done back in the day? Huge world PvP over it? Any more suggestions on how to make our realm more vanilla-like and dumbed down?
Akka
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Altering the working of a baseline ability strikes me at utterly non-Blizzlike and a very bad slippery slope.
The obvious and least disruptive correction to use here is simply to make people drops sands if they are teleported. It's in-line with the spirit of how sands work anyway.
dsquidvicious
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Correct me if i am wrong, but isn't the whole argument of blizzlike silithyst geysers irrelevant as they are not even supposed to be in game till aq release?
bl4ckc0d3r
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That train has passed since we have even argent dawn token awards in the game.
Jahreno
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I know this may have very little effect but how about preventing 1 side in BG having more players than the other? Its always horde 1-2 members up during usual games throughout the week, unless alliance has 10 pvpers online at the time. I'm sure preventing 3v5, 4v5 and 5v6's is a way of making things a lot more fair in BGs. Why would anyone play BGs if he is going to get ROFLstomped each time 3v5 by ashkandi warriors and wf bots? Thats one of the reasons people farm geysers.
bl4ckc0d3r
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Totally support this. Please make it happen!
Chero
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This has been discussed several times and there is no prevention against 3v5 battlegrounds. Each time 5v5 players are at least invited to WSG, and we really cant affect if two players refuses to join.
bl4ckc0d3r
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How about this: Aside form normal queue, you add another queue for queued players into which players go only after they click "Join Battle" button. So you basically don't enter the game when you click that button unless there is another person of opposite faction who also clicked "Join Battle". Basically, what I am proposing is that after 5v5 you only allow people to enter BGs in pairs - 1 horde and 1 alliance at same time. All those who were afk or decided not to join battle, they won't join that way and games will be balanced.
Jahreno
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What Ermean says makes sense. But even if it cant be done, the real problem with 3v5s is that, even if we join and try to fight, we dont get a single mark because it lasts 5 minutes and in Kronos we only get a mark for 10 minute games. Hordies can move as a 5man team, capture 2 flags and get 3 marks in that situation. Can there be anything less fair than that? How about removing the 10 minute limit, and giving both sides only a single mark when game prematurely ends without objectives being completed?
First scenario : 1(or both) side(s) has less players than needed; if neither side manages to capture 3 flags in WSG, capture all bases in AB, or kill the enemy general in AV before game prematurely ends, both sides get a single mark.
Second scenario : 1(or both) side(s) has less players than needed; one of the sides successfully completes the objectives of the game and wins before game ends, Winning side gets 3 mark and rewards as usual while undermanned side gets a single mark regardless of the duration.
Third scenario : Both sides have enough players to keep game running. For a person to enter the battleground, another from opposite faction needs to click Join Battle. Therefore numbers are always equal.
It has been done in other server(s), i cant see why not here.
Just think about it like this, a WSG game that ends in 5 minutes take 7 minutes. If you are undermanned and dont get a single mark, you get 0 honor, 0 reputation, because opposition sticks together.
You can cap a silithyst geyser and get 199 honor. And you can do it 5-10 times an hour. Comparison is very simple.
First scenario : 1(or both) side(s) has less players than needed; if neither side manages to capture 3 flags in WSG, capture all bases in AB, or kill the enemy general in AV before game prematurely ends, both sides get a single mark.
Second scenario : 1(or both) side(s) has less players than needed; one of the sides successfully completes the objectives of the game and wins before game ends, Winning side gets 3 mark and rewards as usual while undermanned side gets a single mark regardless of the duration.
Third scenario : Both sides have enough players to keep game running. For a person to enter the battleground, another from opposite faction needs to click Join Battle. Therefore numbers are always equal.
It has been done in other server(s), i cant see why not here.
Just think about it like this, a WSG game that ends in 5 minutes take 7 minutes. If you are undermanned and dont get a single mark, you get 0 honor, 0 reputation, because opposition sticks together.
You can cap a silithyst geyser and get 199 honor. And you can do it 5-10 times an hour. Comparison is very simple.
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