more like this https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
The Question of Naxxramas Difficulty
- Thread starter Bazzil
- Start date
Oh whats that,the mega elite are doing crazy tanking strategies? NO WAY! Meanwhile at this place called the average guild, we are busy wiping 3x in BWL and using normal tanking talents. Blows my mind the top ~4 guilds want everything CUSTOM TUNED for them and screw the other 20 guilds out of a blizzlike naxx. Congratz you have pushed vanilla to the breaking point, and now you are crying about it.
bl4ckc0d3r
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From the statistics that people have been throwing around, that is actually the way it was in blizzlike vanilla. A Blizzlike experience.
OnslaughtFei
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I find the "Blizzlike experience" moniker an obvious redefinition of language to manipulate rationality and restructure the logical framework to change the result of the equation and I dont think anyone is dumb enough to not know exactly what they are doing. Ultimately you cannot have a blizzlike experience without following the time-line at the very least. 56+ (and running) weeks of C'Thun slaying versus the 9 the top progressed guild had on live in 2006. A blizzlike experience would involve every guild going into Naxx without knowledge of mechanics, unfarmed consumables, almost no alts not on a shared main account (and with mostly hobo gear), and no stocked frost resist gear/mats.
bl4ckc0d3r
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Things you mention as "cheats" that Kronos players have available ultimately all lead to one result -> easier Naxxramas. So, make it harder and scale things back.
1) "56+ (and running) weeks of C'Thun slaying versus the 9 the top progressed guild had on live in 2006" -> Scale the damage (including most spells) and health of Naxxramas monsters and bosses.
2) "every guild going into Naxx without knowledge of mechanics" -> Mess with timers, introduce new spells etc.
3) "unfarmed consumables" -> Same as 1).
4) "almost no alts not on a shared main account" -> This is the only one I can't answer easily.
popopidopop
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Now how are they going to compensate for the fact that average
players computer was like 512 mb ram with basically no graphics card and ppl had internet speeds so low that only asia can achieve that lvl of lag these days?
There is no way to get the experience they did venturing into naxx. We have so many add-ons guides and places to go practice the mechanics beforehand available that it is only going to be a challenge for guilds made up of mentally challenged ppl with no consumes addons or clue how the mechanics work.
At this point making a popular opinion poll is as good a way as any to decide how hard naxx should be
Some slight hp/dmg buffs should be in order to compensate for how overgeared the average raiders are at this point imo.
players computer was like 512 mb ram with basically no graphics card and ppl had internet speeds so low that only asia can achieve that lvl of lag these days?
There is no way to get the experience they did venturing into naxx. We have so many add-ons guides and places to go practice the mechanics beforehand available that it is only going to be a challenge for guilds made up of mentally challenged ppl with no consumes addons or clue how the mechanics work.
At this point making a popular opinion poll is as good a way as any to decide how hard naxx should be
Some slight hp/dmg buffs should be in order to compensate for how overgeared the average raiders are at this point imo.
bl4ckc0d3r
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Saying something like that shows that you do not understand the concept of competition. Unless all the buffs get removed from the game, players who love being on top and beating others, testing their limits etc., will always get them all because that provides them with the best possible results. Guilds that love beating set goals and reaching milestones, and come out on top versus others, will always get them all.
OnslaughtFei
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Yes. Easier Naxx. That's reality. New's flash: Everything's easier.
No exception from now until then.
That is why blizzlike experience is such a naive argument.
Kronos was committed to avoiding custom content. That is why I play here. To change that in the 11th hour is execrable.
You become less and less credible with each post. Name one guild that's struggling through BWL. I can't. Synced, VG, Memento Mori, Conflux, Placeholder, Immortals, Irae, Wipe Club, Agony, Easy, Risen, NLT, UaV, Control, Onslaught, Indecisve, Lost in Sauce, BWL pug #1, BWL pug #2 ALL clear BWL every week in approx 1-2 hours, and rarely wipe to any boss. That's every Kronos raiding guild I could think of. So which of the guilds I listed are you labeling as "average," and which of them are struggling through BWL on a regular basis "wiping 3x?" If there is such a guild, then they aren't average--they're way below average.
OnslaughtFei
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Cherry pick the post much? Did I say struggling through bwl? No thats you putting words in my mouth. What I said is some guilds wipe 3x in BWL still, not that it's often. It's funny that you are posting so much about BWL to advocate for buffing Naxx, which is a whole 2 tiers later.
I get it, you are desperate to buff Naxx because your guild has pushed Vanilla to its absolute limit and have effectively broken the game. THATS YOUR PROBLEM, DONT MAKE IT THE REST OF THE SERVERS.
I get it, you are desperate to buff Naxx because your guild has pushed Vanilla to its absolute limit and have effectively broken the game. THATS YOUR PROBLEM, DONT MAKE IT THE REST OF THE SERVERS.
Labathor
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That's a sick setup though.
bl4ckc0d3r
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Every guild wipes in every content at times. Mistakes happen. You're not making any point here.
Almost everyone knows BWL and AQ inside out at this point. Every boss and every trash pull has been done a million times. How many people have real experience in Naxx where they'll know the pulls in detail? Even the developers have had trouble in this area since there is such little information around.
I'd bet the people with the most (or any) experience here are in 2 or 3 guilds; and probably in WOTLK. The vast majority are going in having read wowwiki and only have a vague idea of what to do. I'm expecting long, wipe filled nights for most. At least for the first few months.
I'd bet the people with the most (or any) experience here are in 2 or 3 guilds; and probably in WOTLK. The vast majority are going in having read wowwiki and only have a vague idea of what to do. I'm expecting long, wipe filled nights for most. At least for the first few months.
There are more then a few people around from back then. If one would be asked nicely about it a lot of information would be brought up, and could be checked by the other ones and such a collective memory would be able to answer a lot of questions.
But as long as people with good memories are not asked, and when bringing up points trumped by old unreliable fansites, their interest will die down. People "in the know" back then were not the ones writing some random homepage, they were the ones playing, and still more credence is given to the ones who wrote it down, no matter how it really was.
As a side note since i am writing a post anyways now one thing that bothers me here is trying to show how bad people were back then. Not everyone was and yes, you mostly had like 20-25 goos people carry 15-20 others in Naxxramas, but not everyone was bad. And yes, even in retail in 06 you had raids have a DM-ID done with a set of Warlock and clickers there, a set of warlock and clickers at Naxxramas and rebuff the tanks on progression for Patchwerk despite some people here trying to say everyone was bad back then.
Even despite this, disabling world buffs for like 4 weeks sounds like it would benefit the release greatly.
But as long as people with good memories are not asked, and when bringing up points trumped by old unreliable fansites, their interest will die down. People "in the know" back then were not the ones writing some random homepage, they were the ones playing, and still more credence is given to the ones who wrote it down, no matter how it really was.
As a side note since i am writing a post anyways now one thing that bothers me here is trying to show how bad people were back then. Not everyone was and yes, you mostly had like 20-25 goos people carry 15-20 others in Naxxramas, but not everyone was bad. And yes, even in retail in 06 you had raids have a DM-ID done with a set of Warlock and clickers there, a set of warlock and clickers at Naxxramas and rebuff the tanks on progression for Patchwerk despite some people here trying to say everyone was bad back then.
Even despite this, disabling world buffs for like 4 weeks sounds like it would benefit the release greatly.
Lharts
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you are full of shit. most reliable vanilla source used to be a guilds theorycrafting forum not memory...
human memory is so bad, like you wouldn't believe. just read the bugtracker to see for yourself.
the good and bad argument does not count for PvE. you could be a bot and still clear naxx. people got better and more tryhard. this of course makes content seem easier. my number one problem with the difficulty is the gearing on kronos.
a guild on our server killed Kel with raiders that still used some T1 pieces. there were some pretty well geared players too of course. my point beeing, naxx was cleared by guilds that did not have raids who were fully decked in previous tier equiment.
naxx might be just right for you if you raid it with the gear level it was meant for.
That is why you don't take a single human memory. And yeah, guilds used to theory craft in their forums to see what to do and how to beat stuff, but not that much in open forums being able to be read by everyone. Sure there was also some of that, and if you still find that i am pretty sure a lot of that would fit with the memory of most of the people.
I never brought up gear, but because of the gear i wrote it would be good to disable the world buffs to balance that.
( T1 is not all bad for that encounter overall on some classes, but that would be using memory and not following a written text, so i'd not elaborate more. )
I never brought up gear, but because of the gear i wrote it would be good to disable the world buffs to balance that.
( T1 is not all bad for that encounter overall on some classes, but that would be using memory and not following a written text, so i'd not elaborate more. )
Raiding with t1 is a knowledge issue not a gear issue.
voidzone
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- May 3, 2015
There's only a handful of people requesting the buffs to get an edge in a serverfirst race and who even care about it, the serverfirst race is a joke anyway; synced was doing Elysium PTR naxx and god knows where else, and Vanguard even has their own coded naxx now to bore people to death doing trash before it even releases, can't really feel pride winning any race now if you use things not available to others, the spirit of any first kill is dead, can only feel sadness that when Naxx finally releases, it doesn't feel like you finally are back to Naxx after a 12 year wait, but it feels like it's just another farm-run. It's pathetic but members are forced to participate. The kronos 3 limit-PTR was to try and stop people being burned out before naxx released and to keep the race 'fair', but obviously nerds will find a way around it.
So enough about serverfirsts, most are requesting the buffs because they fear a bruteforce-style of raiding again like most of AQ is currently, they just want the mechanics to work, if 1, or 2, or 8 fights need a little bit more HP or damage to make it interesting (or doing all phases of fights) for 95% of the playerbase, then that's something that shouldn't be shy'd away from. People will quit quickly if Naxx is overtuned, but will quit just as quickly if Naxx is undertuned and you are in zombie-mode not even needing to pay attention, this is why people are looking to get a middle ground.
A quality post voidzone and I honestly sympathize a lot with wanting Naxx to be a challenge for those that have waited for years. We built up in our minds late vanilla being a challenge but with 2017 mindsets vanilla is sadly an easy MMO from a gameplay standpoint if you are able to get together 40 good players.
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Weird I don't recall exactly what I wrote but I'm really quite puzzled why of all my posts that one was edited. I didn't receive a warning or anything just seems like a random edit.
Essentially I said that Kronos has a great opportunity to observe the Naxx progression on Anathema and adjust their tuning accordingly. They are also removing wbuffs for the first 2 weeks of Naxx. That a big reason I was in the MUST BE BLIZZLIKE TUNING camp here was because I had thought that Kronos would be the first of the two to launch Naxx. Now that we can see how blizzlike tuning goes on Anathema, I'd be open to possible tuning changes if it turns out a lot of Anathema guilds are able to easily clear through naxx.
Lastly I said that I'd be able to provide first hand experience since I raid on both servers. My guild on Anathema is decent, Similar in quality to UaV I'd say. I've been on that server since day 5 of Nost so I'll be able to get info from most horde guilds. Hopefully someone here has connections alliance side so we can gather data on how easy/hard Naxx is for both factions and use that data to potentially make suggestions.
That's essentially what I posted iirc, not sure why that triggered an edit.
Essentially I said that Kronos has a great opportunity to observe the Naxx progression on Anathema and adjust their tuning accordingly. They are also removing wbuffs for the first 2 weeks of Naxx. That a big reason I was in the MUST BE BLIZZLIKE TUNING camp here was because I had thought that Kronos would be the first of the two to launch Naxx. Now that we can see how blizzlike tuning goes on Anathema, I'd be open to possible tuning changes if it turns out a lot of Anathema guilds are able to easily clear through naxx.
Lastly I said that I'd be able to provide first hand experience since I raid on both servers. My guild on Anathema is decent, Similar in quality to UaV I'd say. I've been on that server since day 5 of Nost so I'll be able to get info from most horde guilds. Hopefully someone here has connections alliance side so we can gather data on how easy/hard Naxx is for both factions and use that data to potentially make suggestions.
That's essentially what I posted iirc, not sure why that triggered an edit.