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    TwinStar team

Why allow safezoning..?

Inzomnia

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2016
It boggles me why kronos staff continues to allow clear exploitment of game mechanics by safezoning. Specialy now since it has grown into this cancerous hobby by horde mages in Cenarion Hold. You simply cant send mails most of the time without getting triangled by 2-4 safezoning mages. You cant walk through CH without getting raped by mages outranging, or evading the guards.

Maybe just like your multibox rules, time for a little revision?

It has gotten to the point where you cant even do anything silithus related, without losing at least half your time dodging or corpse running from safezoning abolutely shitter mages. Please reconsidder your stance on this.
 
I agree that the safespotting in CH in particular has gone too far. I understand that dealing with all the reports of safespotting might be too time consuming to deal with so why not make them shoot, just like the gadgetzan ones?

Considering mages are standing on pillars only accessible via slow fall its become a retarded shitshow and its not promoting fun gameplay at all (or even PvP for matter).
 
I agree that the safespotting in CH in particular has gone too far. I understand that dealing with all the reports of safespotting might be too time consuming to deal with so why not make them shoot, just like the gadgetzan ones?

Considering mages are standing on pillars only accessible via slow fall its become a retarded shitshow and its not promoting fun gameplay at all (or even PvP for matter).

actually its hilarious to do, so you are wrong :bunnymove:
 
leave this place and they have nothing to do that means they look for other places
 
leave this place and they have nothing to do that means they look for other places

You realize many people are in CC to farm for Earthstrike/Rockfury bracers? You realize they have to go back to CC to sell and send stuff from the mailbox?
 
Had to fly to fly to tanaris just to craft the shit for my badges, wasnt even possible to dodge the 9 mages trying to get you from every angle.
 
leave this place and they have nothing to do that means they look for other places

Ha. ha. What a silly suggestion on how to handle this problem. Not sure if serious or...

And regarding the "blizzlike" comment. Its been 10 years ago so Im not sure if this is even true. I highly doubt it. Ingame grieving and ruining other ppls game time has deffinatly always been taken seriously. Short term bans after warnings have deffinatly been handed out for similar cases.

And there are many things that on a private server are slightly non-blizzlike. They are to improve the quality of life of a 10year old game. Such as the lower respec cost. Making sure everyone gets to enjoy Silithus could just as easily be fixed for the same reason, improve the game for everyone (sry not sry shitter mages).
 
Some people find their greatest pleasure in making other peoples lives miserable. This is one of those things. I've never understood this destructive pleasure, but I'm accepting that we're all different. But using exploits to mess people over is over the line of acceptable in my book. If you want to gank people who do no resistance, please just go to stranglethorn or wherever, where this kind of behaviour is natural (but ofc also terrible).
 
Guards are retarded and allowing people to so obviously abuse that was always a bad decision by the staff. Not being able to do any quest because 3 UD priests and 5 UD mages target you as soon as you go to visibility range of Cenarion Hold is.... fun.

The whole safespotting policy should be redone.
 
Safespotting used to be disallowed, but the rules were changed after an outcry because people were given temp bans for safespotting on top of ah roof in Orgrimmar. In an effort to be consistent they just allowed safespotting everywhere.

In my opinion the rules should be changed though, something as simple as "no safespotting in CH" is a good enough amendment.
 
I reckon the rules were changed more due to the flooding of reports from angry people who got killed in a town by some guy.

Also their definition of what was considered safespotting was very bizarre. Banning people for killing others in towns even though guards were attacking.
 
I think banning safes potting in CH while keeping it allowed in the rest of the world is a great idea. Blizzard clearly showed in later expansions by giving guards in neutral towns even stronger means to kill griefers that they never intended for people to be able to be killed without strong consequences in towns.

If you kill me and the guards kill you/you escape after, fair game. 5 mages standing on pillars killing everyone in town has gone way too far.
 
I find it pretty odd to hear that you guys are having this much problem with ganking in CH, to be honest. Across all the times I've gone there in order to farm some reputation I've died maybe a total of two times? I've found that the people who find it worthwhile to spend their day sitting on a pillar instead of trying for legit fights outside are generally pretty terrible at the game, and fairly simply either killed or lined with pillars from the buildings.

If you "super dedicated and hardcore" Vanguard players really can't complete the noggenfogger quest or place a bankalt inside a building instead of sitting out in the open mouseclicking items from your bag into the merchant, and thus dying to some backpedaling dude who's locked in a fairly static spot, I think you deserve all the deaths you get.

Hell, you can even bring a friend or two along whenever going to the town, I've noticed you guys generally have multiple people in the zone grinding whatever. You could even go as far as bring a bunch of fellows and make sure that the base will be alliance controlled whenever you're turning your stuff in, that used to be a pretty common method of securing locations in games like these until the current "hardcore" raiding generation that apparently can't move out of a city without taxi alts came along.
 
And the sad pathetic behaviour just keeps going and going. Sure devs, ignore your community. Clearly there are more in favor of safezoning then against....
 
Do something about this shit now. Its absolutely retarded. 4 fucking mages standing on pillar killing anyone who just comes into CH.
 
This has come to a sad and disappointing point where it is just lowering the standard of the server. How can this be blizzlike and marked as "allowed" from the GMs?

Please take this matter seriously and make an end to it!
 
Problem is that the staff is inconsequent about it ontop of it, making exceptions for everything. Fact is, they can change the rules and execute them how they want. You guys agreed to it afterall when you have decided to play on this server.

Yep, pathetic but what can u do.
 
For those unhappy with the current rules (of lack there of for safespotting), firstly I would like to say it's not that the staff are ignoring you or that the staff don't understand the points being made. Safespotting used to be against the rules on Kronos, however this was changed a long time back. Allow me to go into more detail

As staff, we have X amount of resources, which consists of both a) Number of GMs in game, and b) X number of hours GMs put in per week. The administration has to work with what we are given. Understand that X is a variable, never a constant. The amount of GMs that log in in a given week fluctuates, and the amount of time they are able to volunteer does as well. We do not have set hours nor do we have mandated schedules. So given this information, our resources greatly fluctuate from one week to another. Compare that to a company like Blizzard who has a) stable income via subscriptions, b) paid staff c) an actual business. This should not be a shocker that there is a lot more resources than we have at our disposal. They had(have) at their disposal the ability to ensure 24 hour coverage, a minimum amount of GMs active at any time, compensation in order to ensure they have adequate staff.

So having said the above, our team is constantly fighting an uphill battle to ensure we have enough support to meet demand; which unfortunately is not always possible (heck, at the time of this writing we're once again recruiting GMs). So given that we have an inconsistent amount of resources available to us, we have to make decisions on where these resources are best allocated. Our staff have a ton of responsibilities which includes but not limited to: answering tickets/fixing things, investigations (bots, hackers, cheaters etc..), monitoring dungeons for hackers/exploiters etc... Given the above, we have to ensure that resources are covering a) the most important things, b) the most urgent things, c) the highest priority things

We put our resources where we feel the server mosts needs them, and given the available resources at our disposal our staff are stretched as far as the can be. Often times when required, we have to pull resources to something that we deem a higher priority or urgent (large ticket numbers, investigations, etc...). When this happens, we have to pull resources from another area to cover it, which then significantly impacts our ability in that area we deem important.

Currently safespotting is not part of our ruleset, as such we obviously aren't specifically taking action against these players. If we were to add this then additional resources from an already stretched thin team would need to be deployed, which means that other areas will be impacted. You might be saying to yourself "well safespotting is easily confirmed and takes like "30 seconds" to confirm, what's the issue?". In theory that's true, but not in practice. Here's the "best" case scenario: a) report comes in via ticket, b) GM is online, see's it, investigates and see's it happening right away. Simple, quick and easy. The problem is that this scenario would only happen 5-10% of the time (if that). Here's an average scenario: Player A is safespotting and killing numerous players, half of those players create tickets for this issue (which increases an already constant ticket flow). No GMs are on, and this goes on for 1-2 hours. A team member finally logs in, and there are 10-15 tickets for this issue alone. We now have to take time to answer each ticket after confirming that this is no longer happening. This takes time, and takes time away from players experiencing game breaking issues or high priority problems. Also even if it's only 1-2 people making the complaint what's the proof that it actually happened and that these players aren't lying? (people lie to us all the time, shouldn't be a newsflash). Even if we are on and we teleport to investigate, we'd need to confirm that the behavior is happening. What happens if by the time we get there and nothing is going on? how long do we have to sit and watch the player before we "blow off" the ticket? Just because a player is in a area does that mean they are exploiting? while likely, the answer is no. Most of the time the crime would have been committed and done with before we can get there to confirm.

Back to resources and importance of issues, this also applies to our devs. Adding range weapons sounds great but that takes time. What happens if they aren't far enough to catch the exploiters? and the tickets of complaints that the weapons don't reach them? what about programming items like AQ, Naxx, other high importance quests/events? or the frequently requested items like faction/race/sex change? Our devs have to decide what is of high importance for the server.

Where does one rank safespotting for importance among other things like hacking/exploiting investigations which both hurts the server economy and even worse can make a bad name for kronos if we don't actively police? what about investigations for exploiting raids or gold sellers/buyers? catching bots? ban appeals? BiS quest fixes like Fording? heck, having to sit and watch world chat because of racist/hate speech takes time away from doing our normal responsibilities. Also keep in mind we are also taking on more work with the now enforced account sharing (which requires time to investigate). "You can spend less time in world and more time doing this". Ok, do we switch from monitoring world which affects 100% of the players on the server to something that affects 5-10% of the population (maybe)? what is more likely to sour people from playing/staying on Kronos, safespotting in tanaris/ch? or poisonous/cancerous world chat? that's easy to answer. What about other issues we don't already handle? (restoring gear for hacked accounts? retrieving lost items/switching quest items after a period of time? fixing misloot issues in dungeons?). I fully understand how safespotting is frustrating, but as said we have to do whats best for the server and allocate those resources to those tasks/responsibilities.

We try our best to cover what we can with what we have available. I apologize if that is not enough for some players (in life, you can't please everyone). But we do what we can with what we have available to us, and as staff we do apologize for the frustration that players experience for this behavior.

p.s side note: this message took me about 45mins to write up, time spent away from doing other responsibilities ;)
 
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As far as I remember Warsong Gulch got changed so you can't reach certain spots anymore. Can't you do something similar in Cenarion Hold for those pillars and perhaps other spots that allow safezoning there as well?
 
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While we respect the "resource allocation" issues, I can't see why it would be difficult or time consuming to simply add ranged spell to the guards that would solve 99% of the problems. It would go a long way.

Btw, the guards often attack and kill the person who is being attacked by gankers without the person doing anything, and this is being heavily abused too. Also, simply cleansing frostbolt slow from oneself while running inside a building to avoid gankers causes guards to kill you because "you are fighting in their town".
 
It is natural that you don't have so much time to deal with everything, but then again I have to wonder about priorization in the development. As frederik and bl4ckc0d3r said, it is not much of an effort to add those boundaries or spells. (Yep, I do know what Im talking about, I used to work as developer on another server)
This is an issue everywhere I guess, since I had the very same issue in the team I worked in.

That aside saying that you don't allow it but don't forbid it or punish it but on the other side punishing it again is just inconsistent. Please just state that it is allowed if you don't want to deal with it or forbid it and punish people that you catch.

But doing some weird halfway inconsistent actions is not the key here and that I dislike very much.

I don't want to talk you bad now, we are all very thankful for you volunteer work but even that can be improved.

cheers!
 
p.s side note: this message took me about 45mins to write up, time spent away from doing other responsibilities ;)

Thank you very much for your time to give a lengthy response, and your hard work in general!

I think bl4ckc0d3r and frederik have some nice ideas that may be able to deal with the problem for the most part, without the GMs needing to manually get involved at all. Those CH guards need to take a lesson from the guards in Booty Bay.
 
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