i just stumbled upon this video by browsing youtube, and this guy perfectly sums it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O5S1WlLJfM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O5S1WlLJfM
Why does modern WoW suck?
- Thread starter Xadas
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To be honest, mythic raiding is much more challenging than in any expansion before. That's why I still raid : )
But, everything other than mythic raiding, like normal and heroic raids, and anything outside of raids is made for casuals. We could argue if it's a bad thing, or a good thing. But at the end, it can get really boring.
But, everything other than mythic raiding, like normal and heroic raids, and anything outside of raids is made for casuals. We could argue if it's a bad thing, or a good thing. But at the end, it can get really boring.
Lharts
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Its like listening to myself speak. Feels kind of weird.
What usually fail to see is the actual cause of a problem. Like the state wow is in right now.
They try to find a reason why their favorite game is becoming worse and worse with every patch and then craft artificial reasons for it.
An example would be the general explanation by the community on why the game is less fun. Its not because you get showered with epics or the classes getting euqalized. Its the lack of social interaction required to play the game.
Feels like an MMO in single player or small scale co-op mode.
What usually fail to see is the actual cause of a problem. Like the state wow is in right now.
They try to find a reason why their favorite game is becoming worse and worse with every patch and then craft artificial reasons for it.
An example would be the general explanation by the community on why the game is less fun. Its not because you get showered with epics or the classes getting euqalized. Its the lack of social interaction required to play the game.
Feels like an MMO in single player or small scale co-op mode.
Mythic may be more challenging, but it is still the same instance with the same bosses as on raid finder, normal and heroic. Maybe an extra boss or an extra ability here and there but in essence it is exactly the same instance. Not exciting for me.
Blizzard might think it is genious to cater for casuals and hardcore players but that's not how a MMO is supposed to work.
The zones Nagrand and Shadowmoon Valley have the same name as in Outland, it's not really creative is it? Apparantly Draenor is Outland before it exploded.
Blizzard might think it is genious to cater for casuals and hardcore players but that's not how a MMO is supposed to work.
The zones Nagrand and Shadowmoon Valley have the same name as in Outland, it's not really creative is it? Apparantly Draenor is Outland before it exploded.
So basically he is criticizing the overall design philosophy that WoW has and touches on a lot of points like the casualization of WoW, the implementation of queuing systems like LFR, LFD and others, that inhibit interacting with others and essentially making you play the game solo, and the homogenization of classes.
Now, in my opinion, I truly believe if Blizzard hadn't made all of those changes to make the game more casual friendly, it wouldn't had experienced as much success and longevity as it has right now. The entertainment landscape of 2015 is vastly different and much more competitive than when WoW was released in 2004, I truly believe Blizzard realized that they needed to open up the content for a lot more players otherwise they game wouldn't last as long. So what Blizzard has right now in terms of content is tiered difficulty in almost every facet of of the game.
I personally think this system is better, that WoW is a better game because of it. But of course that's just my opinion.
I do agree with him on the fact that because of the implementation of the systems that I mentioned above it makes it a lot harder to socialize with other players, certainly I don't recognize anyone on my server apart from my friends and even if I'm not trying to be rose tinted about this issue, I remember when every server had it's own unique identity with its own sets of unique players and communities, that is sorely lacking right now in retail WoW.
Overall I think what Blizzard had done with WoW is that it is giving you more choices, do you want to play solo and not interact with anyone you're welcome to do so. Do you want to play casually only 1 or 2 hours every day, you can do so as well. Or you can play extremely hardcore with your guild and interact with the community if that's what you like.
Now, in my opinion, I truly believe if Blizzard hadn't made all of those changes to make the game more casual friendly, it wouldn't had experienced as much success and longevity as it has right now. The entertainment landscape of 2015 is vastly different and much more competitive than when WoW was released in 2004, I truly believe Blizzard realized that they needed to open up the content for a lot more players otherwise they game wouldn't last as long. So what Blizzard has right now in terms of content is tiered difficulty in almost every facet of of the game.
I personally think this system is better, that WoW is a better game because of it. But of course that's just my opinion.
I do agree with him on the fact that because of the implementation of the systems that I mentioned above it makes it a lot harder to socialize with other players, certainly I don't recognize anyone on my server apart from my friends and even if I'm not trying to be rose tinted about this issue, I remember when every server had it's own unique identity with its own sets of unique players and communities, that is sorely lacking right now in retail WoW.
Overall I think what Blizzard had done with WoW is that it is giving you more choices, do you want to play solo and not interact with anyone you're welcome to do so. Do you want to play casually only 1 or 2 hours every day, you can do so as well. Or you can play extremely hardcore with your guild and interact with the community if that's what you like.
I could sum up why for me as a player, modern wow fails in comparison to classic WoW and to a large extent, Burning Crusade.
The original game devs worked really, really hard in telling the story of the game world through the presentation of the zones and NPC's to the best of their ability. The original game was absolutely shackled in chains of iron to the story and lore that comprised all of the Warcraft RTS series. Because of this, the original teams pretty much busted a gut trying to give the players a lot of answers to questions they had from playing those games, and really building on that foundation with new offerings that made sense and were challenging.
I'm honestly not convinced that there was NEARLY as much care put into either Wrath of the Lich King or Cataclysm when it comes to world building. Not to the scale and skill the original team had. That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me in and of itself, but we have to add to the mix that in WoTLK Blizzard said "okay, we want everyone to raid, so shit's getting dumbed down when new content is released so that people catching up can just skip tiers and have fun with their friends." And then add wellfare epics to it, and an extra shitty effort to make PvP into an arena Esport. Somehow.
I cheerfully sold my accounts for good money and moved on when that went down.
The original game devs worked really, really hard in telling the story of the game world through the presentation of the zones and NPC's to the best of their ability. The original game was absolutely shackled in chains of iron to the story and lore that comprised all of the Warcraft RTS series. Because of this, the original teams pretty much busted a gut trying to give the players a lot of answers to questions they had from playing those games, and really building on that foundation with new offerings that made sense and were challenging.
I'm honestly not convinced that there was NEARLY as much care put into either Wrath of the Lich King or Cataclysm when it comes to world building. Not to the scale and skill the original team had. That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me in and of itself, but we have to add to the mix that in WoTLK Blizzard said "okay, we want everyone to raid, so shit's getting dumbed down when new content is released so that people catching up can just skip tiers and have fun with their friends." And then add wellfare epics to it, and an extra shitty effort to make PvP into an arena Esport. Somehow.
I cheerfully sold my accounts for good money and moved on when that went down.
Lharts
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Quests and zones woven into each other. Instances that resemble more a maze then a straight path. Stories arround certain instances starting even 10-20 levels before you can reach that place.
Best example Shadowfang Keep with Pyrewood at its feet and the inhabitants turning into werewolves at night. Combined with the quests and setting of the area... perfect.
Hogger
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Many reasons why it sucks to me.
I'll just focus on one, and it's a big one. The leveling game in modern WoW is broken IMO. Too easy, too fast. Sit in town and spam LFG dungeons all day, never having to say a single word to these random people you're grouped with.
Compare that to Vanilla leveling where it feels like an adventure (yes, even if you've done it many times as I have). Where you're actually gonna meet lot's of people out in the world, and sometimes need their help. Where you're gonna get eaten by Murlocs if you pull too many. Where Azeroth feels like a world, rather than some bastardized streamlined nonsense that current WoW has become.
I'll just focus on one, and it's a big one. The leveling game in modern WoW is broken IMO. Too easy, too fast. Sit in town and spam LFG dungeons all day, never having to say a single word to these random people you're grouped with.
Compare that to Vanilla leveling where it feels like an adventure (yes, even if you've done it many times as I have). Where you're actually gonna meet lot's of people out in the world, and sometimes need their help. Where you're gonna get eaten by Murlocs if you pull too many. Where Azeroth feels like a world, rather than some bastardized streamlined nonsense that current WoW has become.
Yeah that's a real problem. Back in vanilla, when you said, that you killed a boss, people said wow that's awesome. Now when you say you killed a boss, people ask on what difficulty? Or they say, that ooohh i killed that too in LFR mode. And then I just facepalm. That's why I'm looking forward to a quality private server (whichever will it be), and in the meantime, I raid on retail.
I remember that during lvl-in in Classic i had friends on friend List. I did lots of dungeons with them, i even liked them more than my guild members. When one logged in i was like: "woooohooo Prase is online, fun begins".
After TBC friend list was not important anymore.
In Classic i really read the quest logs. In Cata i just went to 1 2 shown on the map. Like a donkey following a carrot. I can't remember a single quest from Cata.
Idk, maybe WoW classic is like old music. You just love it.
After TBC friend list was not important anymore.
In Classic i really read the quest logs. In Cata i just went to 1 2 shown on the map. Like a donkey following a carrot. I can't remember a single quest from Cata.
Idk, maybe WoW classic is like old music. You just love it.
Firstly, thank you for posting the video. I was actually looking for something like this - to see if there's people with the same opinion as mine. And yeah, it feels like listening myself speak.
I've tried all expansions. I actually believe TBC made WoW a much better game. But after that (well with 2.3 patch and on) it went south and was repeatedly made worse every following expansion and big content patch. I 100% agree with the guy in the video.
The biggest problem is lack of social aspect of the game. I am not going to repeat the main points, after all it's all in the video. I was hoping for WoD to maybe change things, but oh my god was I wrong. Garissons made it so much much worse. The whole concept is just flawed. And the worst part? Most people apparently like garrisons. Next major content patch is supposed to bring new followers (legendary even - lol) and whatnot. I mean what the f**k.
I endured for one month, during which I joined an awesome guild on RP realm, leveled four chars to 100 and tried normal and heroic Highmaul raid. You could argue that I never tried Mythic (which is supposedly the real endgame now). But one dungeon difficulty isn't going to keep me playing while the rest of the game concept is absolutely bad.
Second biggest reason for me as to why WoW sucks is class changes. It has gotten to a point, where your class doesn't feel unique anymore. It was bad in Cata and MoP already, but with the ability pruning (or w/e it's called - sorry) in WoD, it's an absolute end to any class identity. All specs are viable (well almost), everybody is welcome to come to a raid. It's basically tank, heal, dps. No real difference. Maybe mythic is somewhat different and needs you to cleverly set up your party structure, but I am not so sure.
So the above two points, for me, are the top two reasons why today's WoW suck. And seeing how the general reception of WoD is rather positive, the game is probably doomed forever to stay this way or possibly get even worse. In the end, that's why we are here on these forums, awaiting the launch of our beloved version of the game. Um, maybe not beloved, but at least with the correct and awesome concept behind it, much like the youtube guy says :smile:
I've tried all expansions. I actually believe TBC made WoW a much better game. But after that (well with 2.3 patch and on) it went south and was repeatedly made worse every following expansion and big content patch. I 100% agree with the guy in the video.
The biggest problem is lack of social aspect of the game. I am not going to repeat the main points, after all it's all in the video. I was hoping for WoD to maybe change things, but oh my god was I wrong. Garissons made it so much much worse. The whole concept is just flawed. And the worst part? Most people apparently like garrisons. Next major content patch is supposed to bring new followers (legendary even - lol) and whatnot. I mean what the f**k.
I endured for one month, during which I joined an awesome guild on RP realm, leveled four chars to 100 and tried normal and heroic Highmaul raid. You could argue that I never tried Mythic (which is supposedly the real endgame now). But one dungeon difficulty isn't going to keep me playing while the rest of the game concept is absolutely bad.
Second biggest reason for me as to why WoW sucks is class changes. It has gotten to a point, where your class doesn't feel unique anymore. It was bad in Cata and MoP already, but with the ability pruning (or w/e it's called - sorry) in WoD, it's an absolute end to any class identity. All specs are viable (well almost), everybody is welcome to come to a raid. It's basically tank, heal, dps. No real difference. Maybe mythic is somewhat different and needs you to cleverly set up your party structure, but I am not so sure.
So the above two points, for me, are the top two reasons why today's WoW suck. And seeing how the general reception of WoD is rather positive, the game is probably doomed forever to stay this way or possibly get even worse. In the end, that's why we are here on these forums, awaiting the launch of our beloved version of the game. Um, maybe not beloved, but at least with the correct and awesome concept behind it, much like the youtube guy says :smile:
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Cpstabber
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Epic is given not earned.
Community is not required.
Reputation means nothing.
Exploration is not required.
No fight start, just mindlessly kill because you are op.
Community is not required.
Reputation means nothing.
Exploration is not required.
No fight start, just mindlessly kill because you are op.
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Gourmandises
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Just different design choices for a game. Every version of the game has its own good and bad points.
Yes, I wear realism-tinted goggles (don't attack me, they're still goggles)
Yes, I wear realism-tinted goggles (don't attack me, they're still goggles)
You are just a Togepi. What do you know about game designs and goggles... :tongue:
Lharts
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I hate the whole rose-tinted goggles argumemt about vanilla.
Of course vanilla wasn't flawless. It actually has alot of issues. Like someone said before, I enjoy the imperfect diamond that vanilla is over the polished piece of shit that retail wow became.
Gourmandises
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Uhh... engineering goggles!
- - - Updated - - -
A better comparison might be a diamond-encrusted lump of gold vs. a gilded diamond, as no matter what they're both valuable.
I see lots of vanilla stuff and see textbook fanaticism about vanilla. If it does not start with 1.x it's unquestionably and automatically bad.
It's just very weird to me.
Tugel
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Honestly, I don't feel like modern WoW is bad. I might not enjoy it as much as vanilla, but that's just a personal opinion. Nowadays WoW is more geared towards the casual market, which is perfectly fine. I'm not in high school anymore, I have a career and responsibilities but even though I don't have much freetime I can still check out most of the content in modern WoW, which is great! Personally I'm already done with WoD but I had a lot of fun for a month or two.
Also it looks better than ever before.
Also it looks better than ever before.
Lharts
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Somehow they are right. A good change in TBC, some might say, was arenas. In my opinion it was the worst change of the game. It tried to take wow to a competetive level. The game was never designed for that.
Not going into details cause that would be a thread on its own.
The problem with anything past Karazhan is that it wasn't developed or planned by the original team. Their ideas and dreams were what made vanilla wow so special. Something you can't copy.
As an example, take TV shows. Some are really good at first, but once they run out of idea it goes downhill from there on. Or another director takes over and suddenly your favorite show is plain bad.
You get the idea I guess.
Something you would never hear about vanilla.
Wait... You're saying you don't have much time to play but already got bored of WoD in a month or two? If that's not bad game design I don't know what is.
Gourmandises
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I've never been so invested into something that if it changes I get personally and deeply offended. I just adapt and move on. I'm making an effort into trying to go backwards in a game's development so I can enjoy it. I mean I could just say vanilla is a nostalgia-polished piece of shit from a bygone age of game design philosophy but I don't. Things like wildstar and how new games are made speak for themselves against vanillabestism. I can only take so much collect bear-assesq artificial gating; i'm not in the military, don't have a disability, nor am I in any state that allows me to grind out dragon scales, honor or anything of the sort(Sure, the payoff is awesome but is the investment equal?). Most of this is due to me wanting to play more than 1 game in my life now
in addition to hanging with friends, reading, etc. However, I do like wow in all forms and for the majority will effortlessly enjoy this experience.Just very absurd to say stuff factually based off of subjective opinions, which is the impression I get from most people.
There is more content in the current version of the game than any other. The time invest for each thing has been intentionally lowered to allow for people to experience every aspect of the game in a reasonable amount of time comparable to doing one thing in vanilla. Imagine leveling from 1 - 100 with no exp nerfs. You'd complain that you were being milked from sub money because of how long it took to get to current content or something. You're not pigeon holed into spending x hours to raid. You are given to opportunity to spend x hours of playing across more than one thing. If you only like raiding you're going to finish quicker. One could say that bad game design would be giving your players a massive amount of choices and only allowing them the ability to pick one of those choices because your game deliberately requires a moderately large amount of time investment to progress in. Not everyone is the kind of player that wants to play dragon age 5 times over to get different outcomes and stuff. The harder part about wow is that in addition to the normal game investments you have make there is also the part where your game relies upon other people and their schedules, which is why dragon age(single player games) are better to do that in.
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Tugel
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I didn't say I got bored. I'm not interested in WoD raiding or PvP so I had no reason to continue playing once I saw the content I went in to see. Raiding and PvP is more interesting in vanilla anyway
Copied from blizzard forum
Vanilla mythbusters - 5 reasons why Vanilla sucked
Lately (since TBC) i have seen a lot of people glorifying how Vanilla was the pinnacle of gaming and in Vanilla WoW was so much better than what it is now. I have to disagree with that. I have played WoW since 2005 summer and i raided in Vanilla from 2005 fall to all the way to end of 2006, and i have quite a lot myths to break about Vanilla.
1). Vanilla raids were uber hard.
- Sort of. But the difficulty didn't come from challenging boss mechanics or anything. But from the fact that you had 40 ****ts to herd and organize, which was pretty much the worst nightmare an officer can have. Also raids lasted for hours. Vanilla raids were like 65% trashmobs 30% of waiting afkers/waiting for buffs (no mass buffs back then or mage tables. pala buffs lasted for 5mins and other buffs for 30minutes. So raiding was just constant rebuffing) and 5% actual boss killing.
2). Everything else = hard too
- Nope. Everything just took ages to complete. Back then we didn't even have LFG system, so we had to spam LFG -channel for 45minutes for healers or something and after that everyone in that pug had to run to the instance. No mass summons, 60min heart stones, no flying mounts. It alone took like an hour to get everyone in UBRS and after that you had endless trash mobs to clear. One thing i give Vanilla is that people had A LOT of more patience back then. Because everything took so !@#$%^- long, that people were used to it by then. So no rage quiters after the first wipe, because no one wanted that 45minute run to get there to go to waste.
3). PvP took skill
- It took even less skill than now. Classes had fraction of abilities/talents they have now. Gaining leet PvP gear didn't take arena rating or anything like that, like today. It took that you ran premade WSG for 8 hours a day for two months.
4). Classes were better
- Hybrids only had one PvE viable spec, and that was the healing spec. Feral/balance druids, Ret paladins, shadow priests or enha/ele shammys just didn't exist in mainstream raiding. Sure some existed, but they were like seeing a leprechaun. Also even if you decided to play, let's say for an example ret paladin; your DPS rotation would literally have been: Seal, judgement. Every other class was pretty much like that too.
5). No boring farming
- Vanilla was nothing, BUT farming. Wanna get gold? Go farm runecloth in EPL and sell them 2g/stack in AH. You can do the math how long it took to get that 100% mount that did cost 1000g. Also quests were all over the wall. No logical quest flow and you were constantly out of quests and every other quests was like "Go to Elwynn Forest to speak to this guy and then this guy in Ironforge and then come back for your 58xp reward".
So all and all our current WoW isn't that bad. Nowdays we have achievements, mount tabs, LFG panels, cross realm battlegrounds, cross realm raids and 5mans, flying mounts and dual specs. Sure Vanilla had it's moments, but it wasn't some pinnacle of gaming, as some people claim it to be.
----
I need to add something. I didn't hate Vanilla in any way. The post just came out as quite bit
of whining and little too provocative, but that was because it was directed towards people who worship Vanilla as the best game ever made. So it was pretty much an argument against my own projection of some random Vanilla cultist.
Another thing is that there is a fine difference between being hard and being impractical.
Speeding down the highway 25km/h for 8 hours sure is boring and takes special kind of hardcore dude to get it through, but it isn't challenging because of difficulty. But because of boredom and simplicity of it. So my big problem is that Vanilla had a lot of things that were made artificially hard by making it extremely boring and repetitive, which isn't the right way to go in my opinion.
Sure Vanilla was a blast in 2005 and farming didn't bother me so much. It still was hands down the best MMO out there and compared to other MMOs back then, it wasn't that farmy. But in 2012 these mechanics and design philosophies just would not work or be that fun to play with. Being hard and being time consumingly impractical is not the same thing. Good game is hard, but feels practical. Sure cutting your grass with scissors takes a lot of time and determination, but it isn't difficult. Vanilla seemed to have this same thing going on. Content wasn't that challenging. It just took some nerve to sit through the bull!@#$.
Vanilla mythbusters - 5 reasons why Vanilla sucked
Lately (since TBC) i have seen a lot of people glorifying how Vanilla was the pinnacle of gaming and in Vanilla WoW was so much better than what it is now. I have to disagree with that. I have played WoW since 2005 summer and i raided in Vanilla from 2005 fall to all the way to end of 2006, and i have quite a lot myths to break about Vanilla.
1). Vanilla raids were uber hard.
- Sort of. But the difficulty didn't come from challenging boss mechanics or anything. But from the fact that you had 40 ****ts to herd and organize, which was pretty much the worst nightmare an officer can have. Also raids lasted for hours. Vanilla raids were like 65% trashmobs 30% of waiting afkers/waiting for buffs (no mass buffs back then or mage tables. pala buffs lasted for 5mins and other buffs for 30minutes. So raiding was just constant rebuffing) and 5% actual boss killing.
2). Everything else = hard too
- Nope. Everything just took ages to complete. Back then we didn't even have LFG system, so we had to spam LFG -channel for 45minutes for healers or something and after that everyone in that pug had to run to the instance. No mass summons, 60min heart stones, no flying mounts. It alone took like an hour to get everyone in UBRS and after that you had endless trash mobs to clear. One thing i give Vanilla is that people had A LOT of more patience back then. Because everything took so !@#$%^- long, that people were used to it by then. So no rage quiters after the first wipe, because no one wanted that 45minute run to get there to go to waste.
3). PvP took skill
- It took even less skill than now. Classes had fraction of abilities/talents they have now. Gaining leet PvP gear didn't take arena rating or anything like that, like today. It took that you ran premade WSG for 8 hours a day for two months.
4). Classes were better
- Hybrids only had one PvE viable spec, and that was the healing spec. Feral/balance druids, Ret paladins, shadow priests or enha/ele shammys just didn't exist in mainstream raiding. Sure some existed, but they were like seeing a leprechaun. Also even if you decided to play, let's say for an example ret paladin; your DPS rotation would literally have been: Seal, judgement. Every other class was pretty much like that too.
5). No boring farming
- Vanilla was nothing, BUT farming. Wanna get gold? Go farm runecloth in EPL and sell them 2g/stack in AH. You can do the math how long it took to get that 100% mount that did cost 1000g. Also quests were all over the wall. No logical quest flow and you were constantly out of quests and every other quests was like "Go to Elwynn Forest to speak to this guy and then this guy in Ironforge and then come back for your 58xp reward".
So all and all our current WoW isn't that bad. Nowdays we have achievements, mount tabs, LFG panels, cross realm battlegrounds, cross realm raids and 5mans, flying mounts and dual specs. Sure Vanilla had it's moments, but it wasn't some pinnacle of gaming, as some people claim it to be.
----
I need to add something. I didn't hate Vanilla in any way. The post just came out as quite bit
of whining and little too provocative, but that was because it was directed towards people who worship Vanilla as the best game ever made. So it was pretty much an argument against my own projection of some random Vanilla cultist.
Another thing is that there is a fine difference between being hard and being impractical.
Speeding down the highway 25km/h for 8 hours sure is boring and takes special kind of hardcore dude to get it through, but it isn't challenging because of difficulty. But because of boredom and simplicity of it. So my big problem is that Vanilla had a lot of things that were made artificially hard by making it extremely boring and repetitive, which isn't the right way to go in my opinion.
Sure Vanilla was a blast in 2005 and farming didn't bother me so much. It still was hands down the best MMO out there and compared to other MMOs back then, it wasn't that farmy. But in 2012 these mechanics and design philosophies just would not work or be that fun to play with. Being hard and being time consumingly impractical is not the same thing. Good game is hard, but feels practical. Sure cutting your grass with scissors takes a lot of time and determination, but it isn't difficult. Vanilla seemed to have this same thing going on. Content wasn't that challenging. It just took some nerve to sit through the bull!@#$.
Agree with you
1). Vanilla raids were uber easy.
2). Everything else = easy too
3). PvP didn't take skill at all
4). Classes were worse
5). Boring farming