Character Auction

[Lexenadar]

Characters auction are selling characters, gold and gear for Twinstar points. It's P2W and there is no way around that.

I'm not even going to explain how character auctions won't affect you in any way, form or shape. I'm tired of hearing this nonsense.

See, that's one of the things I like about Kronos : they're pragmatic and realistic. They adapt to the situation instead of sticking to the very end of the ''Blizzlike'' spectrum. If CAs are going to happen no matter what we do via the black market, what do we lose by not making some money out of it? Hosting a server costs money. And before someone replies ''exactly kronos admins are corrupt they want to turn this into a business and make personal money for them not the server'' : so what? Honestly, if our hosts can make a good living out of Kronos, GREAT. They'll be even more invested in the server and have the means to hire more people.

I usually compare it to the case of low lvl BG queuing, as both are an example of adapability and pragmatism (even though Kronos still hasn't given a definite answer). Sure the vanilla Purists with a capital P complain, but in the end, we have to think according to concrete consequences. This is not retail with multiple servers, each with thousands of people, linked in BG groups. This is a medium sized private server, and without innkeeper queuing, there won't be any BG 10-59. Ever.

 

[Hogger]

I was not aware that there are no such things as 3rd party armoriess, screenshots, or inspecting people in game. Now I know.

Characters auction is selling characters, gold and gear for Twinstar points. It's P2W and there is no way around that.

By this logic, retail Vanilla, and every Vanilla P-server since has been P2W. Because people have ALWAYS sold accounts. If it happens on the black market vs officially sanctioned means, the end result is the same.

Stop freaking out over something that changes NOTHING, has no impact at all on your gaming experience, affects the server in no way!

 

[Eltar]

Characters auction is selling characters, gold and gear for Twinstar points. It's P2W and there is no way around that.

I don't think it's fair putting other services (such us Feenix) and Kronos on the same pedestal only because you have to assign a term to it. You would call them both P2W but really there is a tremendous difference in what those servers have to offer.

So no, I wouldn't call Kronos P2W. I don't feel mistreated, like i would if someone bought Sulfuras or Thunderfury from Gamemasters.

 

[Hagson]

I'm not even going to explain how character auctions won't affect you in any way, form or shape. I'm tired of hearing this nonsense.

See, that's one of the things I like about Kronos : they're pragmatic and realistic. They adapt to the situation instead of sticking to the very end of the ''Blizzlike'' spectrum. If CAs are going to happen no matter what we do via the black market, what do we lose by not making some money out of it? Hosting a server costs money. And before someone replies ''exactly kronos admins are corrupt they want to turn this into a business and make personal money for them not the server'' : so what? Honestly, if our hosts can make a good living out of Kronos, GREAT. They'll be even more invested in the server and have the means to hire more people.

I usually compare it to the case of low lvl BG queuing, as both are an example of adapability and pragmatism (even though Kronos still hasn't given a definite answer). Sure the vanilla Purists with a capital P complain, but in the end, we have to think according to concrete consequences. This is not retail with multiple servers, each with thousands of people, linked in BG groups. This is a medium sized private server, and without innkeeper queuing, there won't be any BG 10-59. Ever.

It's a shame you don't want to explain why they won't affect me, I've yet to hear a sound argument as to why people buying more characters (and thus more speccs, professions, options for PvE, PvP, grinding) doesnt get them an advantage.

See below for why "they cant 100% fix it so why even bother" is a bad argument.

Let's not discuss BG queueing here please, it is hardly related.

By this logic, retail Vanilla, and every Vanilla P-server since has been P2W. Because people have ALWAYS sold accounts. If it happens on the black market vs officially sanctioned means, the end result is the same.

Stop freaking out over something that changes NOTHING, has no impact at all on your gaming experience, affects the server in no way!

There's a huge, HUGE difference between making rules against people selling characters and actively pursue and ban people for doing so and actively encouraging.
On the one hand you say "This is a problem, let's try to fix it." and on the other you're saying "We cant fix it to 100% so let's make some easy money.".
Saying something is againt the rules and banning people for breaking said rules deters peope from breaking rules. Aka, forbid character auctions and less character auctions will happen.

And yes, people gaining an advantage over me does affect my gameplay experience, just like it affects yours.

I don't think it's fair putting other services (such us Feenix) and Kronos on the same pedestal only because you have to assign a term to it. You would call them both P2W but really there is a tremendous difference in what those servers have to offer.

So no, I wouldn't call Kronos P2W. I don't feel mistreated, like i would if someone bought Sulfuras or Thunderfury from Gamemasters.

Straight up selling items is worse. That doesn't make this not P2W or a thing that shouldnt be looked down upon.

 

[Lexenadar]

I've yet to hear a sound argument as to why people buying more characters (and thus more speccs, professions, options for PvE, PvP, grinding) doesnt get them an advantage.

Never claimed that. However, I've never heard a sound argument as to why Character Auctions is a bad thing.

 

[juan]

from my point of view, official auction, where you pay with stars, is not bad at all.. nobody can earn money from these transactions, so i would say it doesnt embrace people to steal accs, neither it doesnt ruin economy as GOLD for CHAR transactions, nor it gives anyone any abnormal advantage.. what more, you support the server..

 

[Lharts]

Also, do not compare other twinstar autctions with Kronos. They are not 1x rates. Additionally its addons. High level or good geared characters have less value in there.
Some of you act like as soon as the server launches people will be flooding this thing with freshly geared 60 for anyone to pick like from a shopping mall. As if.

Don't confuse BUYING with BETTING. You can bet on anything if noone offers.

 

[Longhorn]

You guys know what P2W is, right? Paying for ADVANTAGE!
Here, you pay to get on the same level as others at best...
Gold transfered with characters still stays on the server and doesnt break economics in any way.
Gear is just as good as anybody can get.

Noobs with top gear will still suck and then proceed to ragequit and resell char.

I mean, how does this break the game? If you want to switch classes and get a char that is just as good as your old one, how does this affect YOU, random nobody?

People will be the same, just different class, its not like the community will change because of that.

Threads like this wont change, same faqqots will bring this shyte up every time they feel like annoying people.
There are no real sound arguments for the auction, as there are none against it, deal with it.

It is working on other realms and nobody is complaining, so suck it up or leave... simple as that.

 

[goris]

I was not aware that there are no such things as 3rd party armoriess, screenshots, or inspecting people in game. Now I know.

Good luck trusting any of these "proofs". If I had the intention I would scam the shit out of anybody stupid enough to trust a screenshot or even an ingame inspect.

(stupid sounds too strong, I'm not trying to offend you though)

Characters auction is selling characters, gold and gear for Twinstar points. It's P2W and there is no way around that.

We have already had this discussion. I'm not going to repeat myself just so you can repeat yourself just so I can repeat myself again just so you can... you see where this is going I hope.

The bottom line is, you see something as a problem, I don't. People can have different opinions.

 

[Lharts]

Fun fact, noone I know who played on Twinstars servers before says its bad. The complaints are only coming from outsiders who have not real idea how the system works or what impact it has.

 

[juan]

Longhorn> tru dat, why not lock both of these threads?

 

[Eltar]

Quick google search:


Feel however you like about it, good, bad, arousing, whatever, but don't call it P2W. Why? Because it's whole another level, it doesn't fit as a part of Kronos definition. Screens above show what P2W is in public awarness, what people think when they hear this term.
It may give you advantage like saving time but that's just nonsense. Come up with another term.

---
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/04/19/the-daily-grind-how-do-you-define-pay-to-win/
scroll down for more.

 

[Zed]

Every possibly sold char just can be so good as actual played chars, so when u are active on your own nobody will get a p2w advantage from your POV, he will be just on par with you so nothing in this world will change.. Just think about it

 

[Hagson]

Never claimed that. However, I've never heard a sound argument as to why Character Auctions is a bad thing.

It's a bad thing cause the people speding money gets an advantage (P2W), I thought that was obvious?

Also, do not compare other twinstar autctions with Kronos. They are not 1x rates. Additionally its addons. High level or good geared characters have less value in there.
Some of you act like as soon as the server launches people will be flooding this thing with freshly geared 60 for anyone to pick like from a shopping mall. As if.

Don't confuse BUYING with BETTING. You can bet on anything if noone offers.

The system is flawed to the core. The likelyhood of a "worst case scenario" has nothing to do with this.

You guys know what P2W is, right? Paying for ADVANTAGE!
Here, you pay to get on the same level as others at best...
Gold transfered with characters still stays on the server and doesnt break economics in any way.
Gear is just as good as anybody can get.

Noobs with top gear will still suck and then proceed to ragequit and resell char.

I mean, how does this break the game? If you want to switch classes and get a char that is just as good as your old one, how does this affect YOU, random nobody?

People will be the same, just different class, its not like the community will change because of that.

Threads like this wont change, same faqqots will bring this shyte up every time they feel like annoying people.
There are no real sound arguments for the auction, as there are none against it, deal with it.

It is working on other realms and nobody is complaining, so suck it up or leave... simple as that.

But you are paying for an advantage. Sure the rogue I bought might not have gear that's impossible to get, but now I dont to grind on my holy priest anymore, I can choose what character to grind on. I got an advantage over anotehr holy priest who didnt spend money. Pay2Advantage.

You make it seem like everyone only trade characters. This system would be better, but as it stands you buy and sell charactes with an intermediate currency, you dont trade one character for another.

Fun fact, noone I know who played on Twinstars servers before says its bad. The complaints are only coming from outsiders who have not real idea how the system works or what impact it has.

First hand experience is not a prerequisite for critique. It feels like im arguing with a five year old when talking to you.

Quick google search:
View attachment 6578View attachment 6579View attachment 6580View attachment 6581View attachment 6582

Feel however you like about it, good, bad, arousing, whatever, but don't call it P2W. Why? Because it's whole another level, it doesn't fit as a part of Kronos definition. Screens above show what P2W is in public awarness, what people think when they hear this term.
It may give you advantage like saving time but that's just nonsense. Come up with another term.

---
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/04/19/the-daily-grind-how-do-you-define-pay-to-win/
scroll down for more.

Most of these interpretations are "paying for "too big" of an advantage". How much is "too much"? For me any advantage is bad enough. See up as to why it's buying an advantage.

Every possibly sold char just can be so good as actual played chars, so when u are active on your own nobody will get a p2w advantage from your POV, he will be just on par with you so nothing in this world will change.. Just think about it

See up, when buying an additional character I gained an option aka. an advantage.

 

[Aieris]

Please, not this sh*t again.

Character AH IS different from P2W because you are only changing owners of things that exist ingame.

In P2W systems, you are actualy adding new things that did not existed before into game world.

Yes, if you pay, you may gain advantage in having more chars to play, but remember, that another guy looses this advantage so world balance is preserved.

 

[Lexenadar]

It's a bad thing cause the people speding money gets an advantage (P2W), I thought that was obvious?

Alright let's analyse your argument:

Your first claim is that people spending money have an advantage. First of all, that's a very relative issue. People spending money rather take a shortcut. They only receive what they could have acquired in a much longer time. Anyway, I don't even need to argue this point, since it's irrelevant to the question. This is just semantics.

Now, if someone buys a very geared character from someone else, how does it affect you? Answer : it doesn't. Yes you might enter in a competition against him in PvP, but then what? Putting aside the fact he surely won't be as skilled as the previous owner anyway, the character would still exist if it hadn't been transfered. Auctions won't make you be surrounded by extremely geared characters any more than if they were illegal. We're talking about very rare occurences that only recycle characters anyway. It doesn't cause a lvl 60 overload.

Now, you might say ''yes but I have to grind for months to get what he had by paying some IRL money''. The answer is : you're right. But how does it make you enjoy the game less? Why would you care some person got a brand new character (which sounds totally boring anyway) ? If you can't manage to live with the fact some people have just more chance or more means than you do, well you're surely gonna have some problems in WoW and in your everyday life. Envy really is a terrible thing.

Oh and finally, you really don't know what a P2W is if you think 1 person out of 500 buying a regular character qualifies. P2Ws really divides communities between those who pay and those who don't.

In the end, you're making a fuss out of nothing, and since this thread only exists to spread confusion and uncertainty, I'd advice closing it.

 

[sivo]

Sry to say that everything you say is just stupid. Then if Kronos close this option now that change just nothing .This happend on all p-Servers you can't do a shit about it. Player will still trade account(s) for Money/Gold/Items or to rl friends. If you want to make money you just sell it, they will just make a lvl 1 fun char on a other account and spam like hell or just go to blackmarket. It will always exist people that use his $$$ to buy Gold/Items/Accounts.
This Option what Kronos offers should make only 1 thing . Char Change with random people or with firend . You guys get only twinstar Coins not $$$$.
And before you come with that it exist People that maybe lvl for fun again to 60 and will trade it here then but they get only twinstar Coins(wow he can buy now a Mount(not riding skill)/pet or maybe buy a new char. So what actually happend here they helped the Server not more!

Wow guys do you really think someone just host a Server for only your fun and you just pay nothing? Belive me nostalrius has already on planning to make a cash shop. Watch with what guys they work together ICEBLACK meilleur PvP Wotlk FR, ALSTORIUS blizzlike 3.3.5(gone down after 2 years and moved to iceblack) do you know what? They have a cash shop.
Lets looks into iceblack http://iceblack.org/boutique.php

Liste des bonus proposés Sur APS blizzlike

Gain de 100000 XP	1	10
Gain de 210000 XP	2	20
Gain de 330000 XP	3	30
50 pièces d'or	1	-
125 pièces d'or	2	-
200 pièces d'or	3	-
500 pièces d'or	5	-
1500 pièces d'or	10	-

Sur Iceblack PvP

Changement de race	1
50 insignes de justice	1
QG de guilde

This is fucking pay to win and not the shop what offers Kronos. But hey hf at nostalrius and don't cry if this Comes a half year later.

 

[Hagson]

Alright let's analyse your argument:

Your first claim is that people spending money have an advantage. First of all, that's a very relative issue. People spending money rather take a shortcut. They only receive what they could have acquired in a much longer time. Anyway, I don't even need to argue this point, since it's irrelevant to the question. This is just semantics.

Now, if someone buys a very geared character from someone else, how does it affect you? Answer : it doesn't. Yes you might enter in a competition against him in PvP, but then what? Putting aside the fact he surely won't be as skilled as the previous owner anyway, the character would still exist if it hadn't been transfered. Auctions won't make you be surrounded by extremely geared characters any more than if they were illegal. We're talking about very rare occurences that only recycle characters anyway. It doesn't cause a lvl 60 overload.

Now, you might say ''yes but I have to grind for months to get what he had by paying some IRL money''. The answer is : you're right. But how does it make you enjoy the game less? Why would you care some person got a brand new character (which sounds totally boring anyway) ? If you can't manage to live with the fact some people have just more chance or more means than you do, well you're surely gonna have some problems in WoW and in your everyday life. Envy really is a terrible thing.

Oh and finally, you really don't know what a P2W is if you think 1 person out of 500 buying a regular character qualifies. P2Ws really divides communities between those who pay and those who don't.

In the end, you're making a fuss out of nothing, and since this thread only exists to spread confusion and uncertainty, I'd advice closing it.

Yes, they gain an advantage that a normal player would have to spend considerable time getting. They are buying an advantage. That is Pay2Win. Sure there are worse forms but that is still Pay2Win.

It affects me in that a character that otherwise would stay logged out cause the owner quit now keeps getting played, picking my herbs, mining my veins, killing my kobolds etc etc.

That player is now more efficient or has more options than a person not paying would, that person has bought an advantage.

If you're ok with people paying for an advantage thats fine I guess. I dont like it though.

 

[indaco]

Yes, they gain an advantage that a normal player would have to spend considerable time getting. They are buying an advantage. That is Pay2Win. Sure there are worse forms but that is still Pay2Win.

It affects me in that a character that otherwise would stay logged out cause the owner quit now keeps getting played, picking my herbs, mining my veins, killing my kobolds etc etc.

That player is now more efficient or has more options than a person not paying would, that person has bought an advantage.

If you're ok with people paying for an advantage thats fine I guess. I dont like it though.

If you think they pay for let you play for free ?
Any server need some proper plan to keep all cost on track , ddoss protection cost a lot

 

[Hagson]

If you think they pay for let you play for free ?
Any server need some proper plan to keep all cost on track , ddoss protection cost a lot

Yes, non-combat pets, oldschool mounts, tabards and other vanity items + race/faction change should cover these costs.

 

[Bandagespecc]

In vanilla retail, people also sold and bought accounts. It was not legal, but very few were caught. So in fact, this is blizzlike.

 

[fefejooj]

No matter if it's allowed or forbidden, people will swap/sell their characters one way or another. It's an issue that not even blizzard can take care of it...

 

[Lharts]

This whole thread feels like its going to purge Kronos from everyone with an IQ below 50.
Thanks OP.

 

[Psojed]

Arguing with Hagson is futile, because his standpoint is the standpoint of a single player gamer.

You see, in a single player game, you cannot be affected by any other player in any way.
In any multiplayer game, another player can and will affect your game.

In another topic, we discussed this issue and we found out from Hagson that in a sense, saving your real life time is an advantage. He confirmed this here too:

Yes, they gain an advantage that a normal player would have to spend considerable time getting.

Here, we also discovered that simply having a possibility is an advantage to him.

That player is now more efficient or has more options than a person not paying would, that person has bought an advantage.

However, he mentions that even other character simply being played will affect his gameplay:

It affects me in that a character that otherwise would stay logged out cause the owner quit now keeps getting played, picking my herbs, mining my veins, killing my kobolds etc etc.

By this definition, any person spending more time than him playing the game will have an advantage over him, even without spending any funds to begin with.

 

[Hagson]

Arguing with Hagson is futile, because his standpoint is the standpoint of a single player gamer.

You see, in a single player game, you cannot be affected by any other player in any way.
In any multiplayer game, another player can and will affect your game.

In another topic, we discussed this issue and we found out from Hagson that in a sense, saving your real life time is an advantage. He confirmed this here too:

Here, we also discovered that simply having a possibility is an advantage to him.


However, he mentions that even other character simply being played will affect his gameplay:


By this definition, any person spending more time than him playing the game will have an advantage over him, even without spending any funds to begin with.

While you make some good points you also seem to miss quite a few.
A person spending more time on the game wont have an advantage on me just like that. If he chooses to level more alts he will though, which is totally fair.
It becomes unfair when things that shouldn't affect the game (such as out-of-game currency) starts doing so.

And yes, saving time is an advantage. If you claim that it isn't then you would have no problem selling flasks, experience boosts, crafting items etc, since people could just spend some in-game time to get it, so why not just let them buy it? The same principle should apply to characters and leveling.

In a single-player game someone can cheat and spawn/buy more characters at their leisure, I dont care, it doesnt affect me. Here it does though, and that's why it's a problem.