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    TwinStar team

Discussion about changing MC Raidtuning

As zarquon stated above every raid will be released as they were on 1.12.1 version, so you don't have to worry at all. All we are trying to say, that we are open to encounter difficulty modifications later once these raids are basically farms.
 
Chero said:
As zarquon stated above every raid will be released as they were on 1.12.1 version, so you don't have to worry at all. All we are trying to say, that we are open to encounter difficulty modifications later once these raids are basically farms.
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Actually, this is a really good reason for me to worry. Thanks for clearing this up.
 
Blizzard usually released difficult content and then later nerfed it to make it more accessible. Buffing the content later would be un-blizzlike and could possibly upset far more people trying to farm easy content.
 
Chero said:
As zarquon stated above every raid will be released as they were on 1.12.1 version, so you don't have to worry at all. All we are trying to say, that we are open to encounter difficulty modifications later once these raids are basically farms.
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Thanks for bringing some sanity in the zoo, lol.
 
costy said:
I think you put too much pressure on Chero&co's shoulders. Balancing a fight it is way more harder than you think. May be possible for Blizzard who has a big team but not for 2 maybe 3 developers. It is not only about finding the right numbers, you need to get realistic results from real raids, you need to monitor them so you get the wanted effect. For only 3 programmers it is like shooting in the dark.
But you need to know that many did MC on retail even on patch 1.12. We did a fresh guild and we raided the "old" content again. It was nice and i can say hard-ish.
Don't be surprised that there will be "elite" guilds on the server. They started recruiting 2 months ago, maybe more. But other guilds will be formed of players that never played vanilla. They could somehow taste a slice of blizzlike classic WoW. They want to see the world as it was back then. Just because you want a harder content does not justify asking to buff Mc. And after that what? Buff Onyxia, Kazzak, Azuregos, first 6 bosses in BWL right?
Vanilla was this way. TBC introduced heroics dungeons for the top elite players. WoTLK had heroics raids.
MC and BWL are "entry level" raids. Look at the attunement they require. Compare it to initial Black Temple atunement.
Don't get me wrong , i like a little bit of challenge but you can't do that with MC at 1.12.
I would actually ask Twinstar to focus on finishing this project (Naxx release) rather then spending their time/resources just to satisfy the will of a 5-10 % of the players. Players that think it is boring to run MC in its original state.
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+1 dude :wub:
 
I agree with the decision to leave raids as they were when patch 1.12 was live. I for one, and i'm sure i'm not the only one here, am interested in kronos because of the unique opportunity it offers to play Vanilla as it was in all its glory. This means the good comes with the bad and any annoyances with the way the original WoW played should be present in this simulation of the original WoW. I dislike the idea of raid tuning because of the precedent it sets.
 
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Chero said:
As zarquon stated above every raid will be released as they were on 1.12.1 version, so you don't have to worry at all. All we are trying to say, that we are open to encounter difficulty modifications later once these raids are basically farms.
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So a few weeks after release? Doesnt sound like a very good idea to me.
It's also generally more accepted by the wow-community to nerf stuff than to buff it. Nothing would be more enfuriating to a struggling guild than suddenly being thrust a few bosses back in progression and once again struggle with something they just recently conquered. Then it's far better to have it be hard from the beginning, and if necesarry nerf it.
 
Well, but how can you struggle at something that is so easy that community want it buffed? We'll see how guilds will progress through content and if modifications are at place.
 
Are people that concerned about MC getting cleared so quickly? Do people not forget how MC works?

You can't even kill Magmadar in your first 2 or 3 runs because you need Tranq Shot to drop off of Luci.

You need to grind up Hydraxian Waterlords rep for the Aqual Quintessences to douse the runes to summon Majordomo.

And after killing Domo, you'll need to have a tank with enough fire resist for Ragnaros, ala Thorium Brotherhood.

Plus you're gonna need to have 40 people or close to it with the right class balance, and them all gear up to at least reasonably close to BiS preraid, and get attuned. And to get BiS preraid, they'll have to get the key to UBRS, which takes time.

Even if people try and blitz MC asap upon release, it will still take a lot of time. Plus I don't see the big issue if people do blitz MC. MC is an easy, simple instance.
 
redjester99 said:
Are people that concerned about MC getting cleared so quickly? Do people not forget how MC works?

You can't even kill Magmadar in your first 2 or 3 runs because you need Tranq Shot to drop off of Luci.

You need to grind up Hydraxian Waterlords rep for the Aqual Quintessences to douse the runes to summon Majordomo.

And after killing Domo, you'll need to have a tank with enough fire resist for Ragnaros, ala Thorium Brotherhood.

Plus you're gonna need to have 40 people or close to it with the right class balance, and them all gear up to at least reasonably close to BiS preraid, and get attuned. And to get BiS preraid, they'll have to get the key to UBRS, which takes time.

Even if people try and blitz MC asap upon release, it will still take a lot of time. Plus I don't see the big issue if people do blitz MC. MC is an easy, simple instance.
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This. +1. I see no problem in the intro raid being exactly that, and intro raid. MC is made to allow raiders to get their feet wet in a 40 man raid environment. I think the best route would be to wait until the server is released and many guilds have cleared MC, THEN have this discussion on raidtuning to have better and more constructive feedback on the difficulty of raids after people have actually experienced them on Kronos firsthand.
 
Hagson said:
So a few weeks after release? Doesnt sound like a very good idea to me.
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I don't understand how did you get to that conclussion. A few weeks? You really think it takes "a few weeks" to get MC turn into farm status? I don't think so.

Calinthodd said:
This. +1. I see no problem in the intro raid being exactly that, and intro raid. MC is made to allow raiders to get their feet wet in a 40 man raid environment. I think the best route would be to wait until the server is released and many guilds have cleared MC, THEN have this discussion on raidtuning to have better and more constructive feedback on the difficulty of raids after people have actually experienced them on Kronos firsthand.
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Pretty much the same that the staff said since announced, just in shorter terms. The problem is that people lack of good reading comprehension.
 
Is Dire Maul going to be released after MC gets cleared? (as it should be) As DM gear is blue, but on-par with MC epics. Releasing DM at the start of the game would be a terrible idea, so I hope this gets read heh
 
redjester99 said:
Are people that concerned about MC getting cleared so quickly? Do people not forget how MC works?

You can't even kill Magmadar in your first 2 or 3 runs because you need Tranq Shot to drop off of Luci.

You need to grind up Hydraxian Waterlords rep for the Aqual Quintessences to douse the runes to summon Majordomo.

And after killing Domo, you'll need to have a tank with enough fire resist for Ragnaros, ala Thorium Brotherhood.

Plus you're gonna need to have 40 people or close to it with the right class balance, and them all gear up to at least reasonably close to BiS preraid, and get attuned. And to get BiS preraid, they'll have to get the key to UBRS, which takes time.

Even if people try and blitz MC asap upon release, it will still take a lot of time. Plus I don't see the big issue if people do blitz MC. MC is an easy, simple instance.
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Scriptcraft 2.
 
Well, why not leave the mechanics untouched and change the mindset of the community?

You can always do MC with only 30 people or - perhaps the better choice - stop min-maxing and allow off-specs to raid (e.g. Ret-Paladins, Disc/Shadow Priest). That would automatically make it a little harder.

:tongue:
 
Chero said:
(...)every raid will be released as they were on 1.12.1 version, (...) open to encounter difficulty modifications later once these raids are basically farms.
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This is really bad idea. It is general approach to release content as hard as possible while being doable for the hardcore guilds and later nerf it. That has been Blizzard's way of doing things for a reason.

There is no point and it doesn't benefit anybody to buff instance after they're on farm. Only thing you can achieve by that is either
1) It will be impossible for newer guilds to clear them
2) Nothing, since it won't be hard for already fully geared guilds anyway
And there is no reason, at any point in the game, to do "Hey, here is content you already passed, little bit harder, you can do it again. Oh, and, there is no reward for it."

And the whole idea is just illogical and will just create big sense of injustice. After some time, MC will be cleared and some guilds will be progressing BWL/AQ/NAXX, but some newer guilds will be still in MC and suddenly, it's harder. What will be their thoughts? "Those top guild had it easier, we could've done it too if we had been here earlier. They don't deserve it. They're not better than us, just luckier." It creates very bad competitive environment and that's what's driving WoW's progress.

And generally, you should try to make all your game content relevant and accessible. After BWL+ becomes the most relevant and MC will become obsolete, you shouldn't hold the players there for unnecessarily long time. That's the reason of later nerfs, because lower instances no longer represent the challenge and it's no longer so rewarding as it was when there was nothing more/better. And the difficult/rewarding ratio should be more or less kept in all in-game challenges.
 
Qiyn said:
Third, increase the potency of boss/trash abilities. Baron Geddon used to living bomb one target? Now, he living bombs three.
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Don't implement this or even get the idea to do it unless you want to make every officer/cl burnt out handling the davai bombers. A davai bomber is a person who continously will fail at understanding specific events during a boss encounter and panic when it occurs to his or her character, often resulting in a big hole in the middle of the raid :winkiss:
 
Soyoen said:
Don't implement this or even get the idea to do it unless you want to make every officer/cl burnt out handling the davai bombers. A davai bomber is a person who continously will fail at understanding specific events during a boss encounter and panic when it occurs to his or her character, often resulting in a big hole in the middle of the raid :winkiss:
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And this is why /gkick was invented
 
Sorry, but as Vanilla lover I cannot support this idea. I like the original game as it is. I also sense the influence of later expansions in this "tuning", the same changes that Blizz have been doing since TBC resulting in multiple difficulty settings bull****. :wacko:
Also as someone above me mentioned, there is much to be done before guilds put MC on farm status, so there is really no point changing anything. Anyway most of the guilds will focus on more challenging raids such as BWL right after MC is cleared. Only newcomers will care about usual MC drop and we'll be happy to handle blizzlike difficulty with naked ppl.
My advice is simple - focus on more important things, because ppl don't want to be stuck in MC, even in more difficult one. They want to move on to harder instances and they expect them to be ready by then.
 
I would not like to see any adjustments made to Molten core, just focus on getting it to the original 1.12 as possible.
 
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