PVP Suggestions and Discussion - August 2017

[backpedwarlock]

a) delete alterac valley
b) delete ur antidodge system
c) kick palaret from bgs

 

[Lildyo]

I'd rather have every weekend be either AV or AB weekend rather than WSG or non-bg weekend. As is, 80% of the month is just WSG which gets rather tedious. Would be nice to see AV and AB more often.

 

[Topmong]

Perhaps WSG > AB > AV > WSG etc.. weekend rotation would be a decent middle ground?

Or you could permanently enable the bonus honor and emissaries for all the battlegrounds to boost activity and abolish specific weekends altogether, but that would be funserver stuff so of course it's better to focus on fixing wolves in AV and considering hibernating taurens because Blizzlike fans find that more interesting.

 

[Kamchak]

After reading every post after mine I would love to add something more to this part of my suggestion.

Whoever wants to PvP (and there are already more than enough awards for it) should do so because they want to.

Now what I suggest is not to change anything related specifically to battlegrounds. I have no idea if awards are correct or 'buffed' or 'nerfed', but in all other aspects ('bugs' excluded) battlegrounds are completely fine.

All battleground problems come directly from population. Most of the problems come from PvM guys who have no idea what PvP is. What they suggest is turning PvP completely into PvM.

AV is not rushing-to-kill boss, AB is not just 'protecting three checkpoints', WSG is not 'carry the flag as quickly as possible'. There are a lot of details to attend to during the battles in order for it to be enjoyable PvP for both sides.

The reason levels 51-60 battlegrounds are horrible is the same reason why 10-59 battlegrounds don't appear: there is not large enough PvP community. Battlegrounds are played only because there is no new PvM content, and those who like to PvP cannot do it enjoyably. Whenever a green-geared joins WSG/AB or a level 51 joins AV, those PvM guys will shoo them off. So unless you're top-geared, you needn't go to battlegrounds. And if you are top-geared, you're probably much more PvM than PvP. So even though formally the server is PvP, in reality it is not and it cannot be.

Good PvP could appear when anybody is able to join any battleground on any level with any gear at any time and meet up same peoply like they are. There could be top-geared guys, but it's definitely not 90%+ of battleground capacity.


So if there is anything that could be changed about PvP content, it is definitely not anything related to battlegrounds in any way.

 

[Topmong]

There are a lot of details to attend to during the battles in order for it to be enjoyable PvP for both sides.

People can't really understand or respond to your values when you don't tell what you consider these details you mention to be.

Whenever a green-geared joins WSG/AB or a level 51 joins AV, those PvM guys will shoo them off. So unless you're top-geared, you needn't go to battlegrounds. And if you are top-geared, you're probably much more PvM than PvP. So even though formally the server is PvP, in reality it is not and it cannot be.

Have you followed the discussion in this thread at all? Most people are complaining about poor quality of players, not poor gear on said players. I haven't seen many people complain about gear at all during the last 5-6 months on Kronos. I've even played mostly on a character that has 3 items from 40-man content myself, and not once has anyone asked me to leave the battle. From what I've seen both factions have plenty of geared and non-geared players in their teams, Alliance simply has worse players so they end up losing most of the time. Not to mention you certainly don't need top level of gear to compete on Kronos.

 

[lanevegame]

I'm still wondering if THAT GUY is a troll or an asperger...

 

[hammerlock]

I'd like to thank everyone who has provided feedback so far, and provide a summary of the discussion at this point.


Suggestion #1: "Add a disconnect grace period" has overwhelmingly positive support (+4 overall)


Suggestion #2: "Disable deserter buff for dropping queue" has mixed feedback. (+1 overall)

• If the developers can easily toggle this feature off and on, that would be ideal. Players are willing to have this removed if it can be re-enabled quickly in the event that it gets abused again.

Suggestion #3: "Rewards for BG Marks" has mostly positive support (+3 overall)

• Offering semi-random consumables instead of gold might be better for the economy
• Separating honor turn-ins and reward turn-ins would prevent double dipping

Other notes:

• Melee leeway feels better but not amazing.
• Blind and scatter shot will disorient the player, and visually make them appear in a location they are not actually at. This makes it hard to scatter/trap, etc. Is there an issue number for this?
• Regarding proc rates : Players should provide ~5-10 minutes of uninterrupted video footage where proc rates feel like they are excessively high, and if possible supporting evidence from old videos. Hard to obtain, but it's the best approach.
• There are issues with being stuck in combat due to things like a totem across the map being present. Is there an issue number for this?
• Remove the non-bonus BG weekend. Mixed feedback on which BG should occur. Maybe just alternating between the 3 would be best?
• Alterac Valley mechanics need to be fixed.
  • Note to players: This work has already been assigned to a developer, but some other work is higher priority at the moment.

If anyone feels that this summary is inaccurate, please say so. Otherwise I will give this thread another couple days and then provide this summary (including any updates between now and then) to the Twinstar Staff for review and consideration.

 

[Kamchak]

If anyone feels that this summary is inaccurate, please say so.

I am not sure if it is inaccuracy or if you should call it anything else, but custom changes...

Suggestion #3: "Rewards for BG Marks" has mostly positive support (+3 overall)

• Offering semi-random consumables instead of gold might be better for the economy
• Separating honor turn-ins and reward turn-ins would prevent double dipping

...and...

Remove the non-bonus BG weekend. Mixed feedback on which BG should occur. Maybe just alternating between the 3 would be best?

...are a big deal.

Screenshot from Kronos 'About' page:


If Kronos wants to provide authentic PvP environment, these specific changes are not acceptable no matter how many positive responses they get. They are as critical as custom items or instant-top-level.

 

[edhris]

You don't need to have anyone record anything, plenty of people have streamed pvp on this server and the footage is available

 

[hammerlock]

You don't need to have anyone record anything, plenty of people have streamed pvp on this server and the footage is available

I did not suggest that you record new content. I said provide the evidence.

 

[edhris]

Why can't they just provide info on how procs work? That would be the last thing I'd steal from this server since they are broken af

 

[Sipko]

Hello, I've been (attempting to) rank for some time.
I did not play original Vanilla but I do enjoy MMO PvP.

I apologize if some of these have already been suggested:

• Vote to Kick Players in Battlegrounds iff another player is waiting in queue
  • AFK/Offline Leaders that somehow are not booted out (resulting in poor group composition)
  • Opposing Faction queuing on alts to intentionally lose or dismay team members (trolling chat)
  • Under geared and/or skilled players intentionally griefing rankers
  • Discourage negative behaviour by having community govern themselves
• Mid Air Reflectors
  • An active reflector should reflect bolts while in flight post enemy channel
• Decreased Trinket Swap Timer in Battlegrounds
  • Decreasing trinket swap timers from 30s to 5s enables more dynamic battles
• Prioritized Ability Queue Tie Breakers
  • A vanished rogue should not be auto attacked out due to mid-swing upon vanish
  • Two mages should not be able to cast polymorph on each other
  • Two rogues should not be able to blind each other
• Aggressive Pets Combat Bug
  • Should not keep enemies in combat if not actively fighting
  • Starving a healer/caster of mana and keeping them in combat with an inactive pet should not be possible
• "Realistic" Grenades
  • Grenades should affect players upon impact and not at end of channel (upon release)
• WSG Flag Visibility
  • Flags should remain the same size and be clearly visible despite carrier's size or stealth modifications
  • Flags should not be obstructed by terrain
• Consistent Food Buff Channel
  • Food Buff ticks are sporadic and would be better served as a channel or decreased sizes but increased frequency of gains (commonly used to counter DoT)
• WPvP Aggressive Horde Guards
  • Horde guards are easily avoided and do not protect the posts they're supposed to
• WPvP Timed Unflagging
  • Logging out and logging back in should not unflag you
  • Consider unflagging members who have been in a faction city for x minutes
  • Logged in users should be flagged for PvP as the default
• Timed Logout in Opposing Faction Cities
  • Should not allow players to /vanish;/logout in opposing factions' cities
• No Durability Loss in Battlegrounds
  • Consider reducing cost of battlegrounds rather than rewarding players to accommodate for it

I'll post more suggestions as I consider them. Thank you for this community outreach.

 

[hammerlock]

Why can't they just provide info on how procs work? That would be the last thing I'd steal from this server since they are broken af

https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthrea...on-August-2017?p=866389&viewfull=1#post866389

This is literally a full explanation of how procs work. I'm not sure what else you want.

 

[Danielle]

https://forum.twinstar.cz/showthrea...on-August-2017?p=866389&viewfull=1#post866389

This is literally a full explanation of how procs work. I'm not sure what else you want.

No, that's an explanation of the Elysium core database table.

What system is Kronos using? Why is the table called PPM when chance on hit weapons in vanilla use flat %, not PPM (weapon enchants such as Crusader use PPM). What % or PPM are notable weapons on Kronos using? Based on what sources? Is Kronos using TBC-esque RPPM?

 

[dms]

Screenshot from Kronos 'About' page:
View attachment 9522

If Kronos wants to provide authentic PvP environment, these specific changes are not acceptable no matter how many positive responses they get. They are as critical as custom items or instant-top-level.

If these are the changes that the community want and are asking why should the devs not listen? Comparing this stuff to insta 60 is absolutely absurd.

As stated in your screenshot: kronos wants to provide the most excellent vanilla experience which is constantly being developed. This is exactly that kind of developement.

Sipko: the afk vote was good suggestion if the gold/marks is implemented but would prolly require alot of work. Other than that, you should spend more time on fixing ui.

 

[Lildyo]

the pvp community is so small here i wouldn't trust an automated feature to report people as AFK. it would most definitely lead to griefing. although on the plus side it would likely be used to eradicate all the shitty ret paladins from our games

 

[AG007]

Just gonna throw some ideas out, sorry if something similar has been mentioned already. cba reading all comments.

Anyway, while I agree battlegrounds should be primary way of PvPing and should be prioritized more than anything regarding making PvP better, I really think un-instanced PvP needs some attention. - I'm speaking of world PvP and duels.

Duels is something I really miss from retail wow. On retail I used to always hang out in durotar and would sometime prefer dueling over BGs and even arena. Since Kronos isn't a server with a massive population it is, unfortunatly, very rare that any duels take place at all. Therefore I'd like to suggest that a duel-area (sanctuary area) should be implemented where both horde and alliance could get ported to and duel each other. In this area it should also be possible for players to reset their cooldowns and for horde and alliance to communicate with each other.
Where should this duel-area be and how do you get there? I imagine that there should be some kind of NPC next to the battlemasters in each of every major cities, who players could talk to and get ported to the duel area. For the location I suppose some of the "secret" areas such as Quel'thalas could be used for this purpose. I know this isn't Blizzlike at all but in the end it's about making a better vanilla wow and I personally think this would be great.

As for the world pvp I simply thought it would be nice if extra/better rewards were given for holding towers in EPL, turning in sands in Silithus, getting the chest in Dire Maul arena. I've not yet thought of a solution for what all this could be, but I really think its a shame that no one cares about these "wpvp games".

I understand if people want to stick to the blizzlike concept and therefore deny these things but let me know what you think.

 

[Danielle]

One idea I had is to move Battlemasters from cities to just outside (Durotar, Dun Morogh, etc.) to encourage dueling between queues and add a bread crumb NPC to the queue rooms for new players.

 

[Eywin]

Resetting long CD's when entering a battleground would even further support dueling in between games. Only abuse I see is that someone resets his MC cap/other 30 mins CD by joining and then afking out. But tbh it's not that big of a thing and he gets 15 minutes deserter...

On the positive side, having fresh ice blocks etc. would make every game more interesting due to being able to perform straight from the beginning instead of waiting for those cooldowns.

 

[Kamchak]

the pvp community is so small here i wouldn't trust an automated feature to report people as AFK. it would most definitely lead to griefing. although on the plus side it would likely be used to eradicate all the shitty ret paladins from our games

Manual AFK-vote is error-prone mechanism. It depends more on the community and their personal relations rather than on the fact of being AFK. So if a person is kicked because he's disliked and not AFK, he should have the ability to report every person in his group with high chance (almost guaranteed) of them all getting banned for at least a month.

Otherwise, AFK-vote shouldn't be put onto players.

Duels is something I really miss from retail wow. On retail I used to always hang out in durotar and would sometime prefer dueling over BGs and even arena. Since Kronos isn't a server with a massive population it is, unfortunatly, very rare that any duels take place at all. Therefore I'd like to suggest that a duel-area (sanctuary area) should be implemented where both horde and alliance could get ported to and duel each other. In this area it should also be possible for players to reset their cooldowns and for horde and alliance to communicate with each other.

You have public test realm for that.

Where should this duel-area be and how do you get there? I imagine that there should be some kind of NPC next to the battlemasters in each of every major cities, who players could talk to and get ported to the duel area.

One idea I had is to move Battlemasters from cities to just outside (Durotar, Dun Morogh, etc.) to encourage dueling between queues and add a bread crumb NPC to the queue rooms for new players.

Just go out and duel. If people are lazy peons who cannot even go outside the city gates, there is no need to give them bonuses for what they can and want to do now.

 

[Enthralol]

You have public test realm for that.

1. You can't reset cooldowns on PTR anymore.

2. You can't stay logged into main realm to stay in queue while waiting. (If I duel it's because I was bored waiting for a battleground to pop.)

 

[voidzone]

2. You can't stay logged into main realm to stay in queue while waiting. (If I duel it's because I was bored waiting for a battleground to pop.)

Did they also change that? Otherwise use realmplayers launcher or 2nd acc realmswitch to be online in both.

 

[AG007]

You have public test realm for that.

Ye, well public test realm shouldn't be for that purpose imo. People use PTR for PvP because PvP on the 'live' realm is more or less dead. Why would you want to redirect pvp players to a different realm? - That would just ruin the server even more in the end.

Just go out and duel. If people are lazy peons who cannot even go outside the city gates, there is no need to give them bonuses for what they can and want to do now.

My idea was to give horde and alliance players an easier opportunity to meet up and duel. The thing is duels are obviously a very faction depending part of the game, meaning if there's a lack of pvpers on either side (horde/alliance) there will most likely never be any duels, which is exactly the case on Kronos.

 

[Smoker]

https://youtu.be/k1t0A1cqGcw?t=4m27s

 

[Oidd]

any developments on this?
would be a good time to introduce some of the abovementioned ideas or at least keep us informed of any plans/decisions made.