Disabling world buffs

[bl4ckc0d3r]

100 days is way too much when it will be cleared on the first night by a few guilds, and first week by most other guilds. Disable it for 3 weeks top.

 

[fetmosaren]

100 days is way too much when it will be cleared on the first night by a few guilds, and first week by most other guilds. Disable it for 3 weeks top.

Im fine with 20 days as long as its makes it a fun competing environment for the guilds involved.

 

[Tarylia]

Yeah, 3-4 weeks sounds fine to me.

The "ambience" that world-buffs create in a raid is pretty awful. (Not that this applied to my current guild experience in the slightest) From melee banning hots, people raging cause healers let them die, no one plays as a team, everyone just does anything selfishly to ensure they survive and keep their world-buffs and the general stress/pressure it places on everyone to maintain them is annoying. After every boss and before every boss - "OMG, can we pull, my songflower is about to run out!" - "Hurry to trash! My buffs are ticking" and then you have the assholes that logout every goddamn mob that dies.

I would much rather have Naxx where we actually can look at the loot, have a nice constructive raid, difficulty is not part of the discussion frankly, stuff is gonna be faceroll.

 

[fetmosaren]

Yeah, 3-4 weeks sounds fine to me.

The "ambience" that world-buffs create in a raid is pretty awful. From melee banning hots, people raging cause healers let them die, no one plays as a team, everyone just does anything selfishly to ensure they survive and keep their world-buffs and the general stress/pressure it places on everyone to maintain them is annoying. After every boss and before every boss - "OMG, can we pull, my songflower is about to run out!" - "Hurry to trash! My buffs are ticking" and then you have the assholes that logout every goddamn mob that dies.

I would much rather have Naxx where we actually can look at the loot, have a nice constructive raid, difficulty is not part of the discussion frankly, stuff is gonna be faceroll.

Worldbuffs trivialize many fights and i agree 100% with what you wrote here. But the matter of the fact is that if you can get them, some people will get them so we and everyone else who wanna throw a competition will have to get them. Even if theres a 25min cooldown on songflower.

 

[Horo]

Should just make songflowers 13h 37m respawn time so the people who jerk themselves off to unimportant meters - because they believe them to be the only tangible way to tell whether somebody performs well - open their mind to understand what defines a successful raid.

Blizzard made a couple questionable decisions in the past with regards to their game design, but removing these gimmicky power ups à la Onyxia Head/Hakkar Heart was the correct choice. This way people won't feel "forced" (ROFL) to pick up every single little advantage they can find because "they need it to compete at the highest level."

I wonder how people continuously grind world buffs for on hour prior to every raid when the clear speed improves by maybe 30 minutes.

- - - Updated - - -

Get a life Gruuz.

 

[GTAjedi]

If you disable world buffs, then people will be forced to use flasks instead. Since WBuffs are free, I prefer to use them

We just play smarter than 2005 people.

 

[Horo]

If you disable world buffs, then people will be forced to use flasks instead. Since WBuffs are free, I prefer to use them

We just play smarter than 2005 people.

People are already "FORCED" to us Flasks, Onyxia Head, Hakkar Heart, Dire Maul buffs, Songflower, random obscure shit you can find across the world like Blasted Lands consumables, the list goes on forever.

 

[crimsonsage]

3 weeks of world buffs being disabled sounds great. (for Naxx)

 

[Oidd]

If you disable world buffs, then people will be forced to use flasks instead. Since WBuffs are free, I prefer to use them

We just play smarter than 2005 people.

people in 2005 didnt give a shit about meters and they had fun.

but in 2017 looking good in meters means "SKILL", more consumbales/buffs = more damage/heal = more "SKILL"
- i am a mage and don't use counterspell so that i don't miss on any damage
- i am a priest and i dont bother dispel the tank, i much rather heal a dying pet to look good in meters
- can i sit on fire and heal myself to look fucking awesome in healing meters?
- i am a rogue but i am too lazy/slowpoke to manage my energy for a kick
p.s. i have a clip somewhere with a raid wiping and a paladin healing a fucking pet. i bet he looked good in meters that fight. i may upload it at some point


not-buffed content with overgeared people practically means you can bypass certain mechanics or at least get the kill by brute-force

in the 2 fights throughout the current content (twins and cthun) that people/raid actually need to have a slight idea of what they are doing all those "SKILLED" people with no binds/shit ui/no raidframes/QH addon/slacking (but fucking awesome in meters) are so much fun to watch...

 

[Gruuz]

It's sad to see that some people don't understand that people play the game for different reasons. Alot of players, including me enjoy pushing this old game to it's levels, getting WOTLK like DPS in vanilla. Yes we are not forced to do so by any means, we are not forced to use consumables we are not forced to use any or all worldbuffs, but we chose to because we find it enjoyable. I highly doubt many players play a private server of vanilla if they don't enjoy it in some shape or form.
It's really amazing that some players don't understand that.

 

[Boltzmann]

people in 2005 didnt give a shit about meters and they had fun.

but in 2017 looking good in meters means "SKILL", more consumbales/buffs = more damage/heal = more "SKILL"
- i am a mage and don't use counterspell so that i don't miss on any damage
- i am a priest and i dont bother dispel the tank, i much rather heal a dying pet to look good in meters
- can i sit on fire and heal myself to look fucking awesome in healing meters?
- i am a rogue but i am too lazy/slowpoke to manage my energy for a kick
p.s. i have a clip somewhere with a raid wiping and a paladin healing a fucking pet. i bet he looked good in meters that fight. i may upload it at some point


not-buffed content with overgeared people practically means you can bypass certain mechanics or at least get the kill by brute-force

in the 2 fights throughout the current content (twins and cthun) that people/raid actually need to have a slight idea of what they are doing all those "SKILLED" people with no binds/shit ui/no raidframes/QH addon/slacking (but fucking awesome in meters) are so much fun to watch...

This pretty much sums up hardcore raiding. God bless quickheal.

 

[Jahreno]

people in 2005 didnt give a shit about meters and they had fun.

but in 2017 looking good in meters means "SKILL", more consumbales/buffs = more damage/heal = more "SKILL"
- i am a mage and don't use counterspell so that i don't miss on any damage
- i am a priest and i dont bother dispel the tank, i much rather heal a dying pet to look good in meters
- can i sit on fire and heal myself to look fucking awesome in healing meters?
- i am a rogue but i am too lazy/slowpoke to manage my energy for a kick
p.s. i have a clip somewhere with a raid wiping and a paladin healing a fucking pet. i bet he looked good in meters that fight. i may upload it at some point


not-buffed content with overgeared people practically means you can bypass certain mechanics or at least get the kill by brute-force

in the 2 fights throughout the current content (twins and cthun) that people/raid actually need to have a slight idea of what they are doing all those "SKILLED" people with no binds/shit ui/no raidframes/QH addon/slacking (but fucking awesome in meters) are so much fun to watch...

You do raise some good points about the faults of "hardcore" raiding, but trust me that many UI/Binds on those guilds are actually very decent. I have the shittiest binds and even I had the "most important bind of all times, limited invulnerability potion" on an easy to reach place on my mouse. And on raids, i have seen insane reactions actually, just a month ago i have seen a paladin DI an asspull and saving the raid a lot of time, buffs and possibly a wipe. The thing you misunderstand is that most of those people are actually cool people and decent players, they just happen to like the PvE competition, no matter how stupid it looks from your side.

One can always just watch warlock health and check combag log for who is healing warlocks and pets to see the actual meter humpers. People that kill critters like SNAIKS in ZG, bugs in AQ40 etc, in order to look better. However if you see outstanding performance from a guild as a whole, if they're not incompetent even without buffs, you can be sure that they're not the *****s you're talking about. The way I see it, most of the "hardcore" raiding guilds have a fairly decent skill level, may not be as good as you in PvP but they know what they're doing and know how to adapt in bad situations. As for interrupts etc, sometimes it is an issue on a guild without discipline and order. But most top-end guilds wouldnt have a problem with it. I have been in raids that i was the only person interrupting casters in BWL in the past, but those were PUGs or on casual guilds. Hardcore players know what they're doing.

Personally, I think my guild would be at the top even without the buffs, if it was a no-world buff competition we would still be competing for top spot, definitely. It would also be more interesting imo, but people like big numbers, they also like their mistakes not being punished as hard, going ham on a boss and getting aggro not instantly resulting in death. They like the extra health from flasks etc so they have more room for taking the risk and competing.

I dont mean to insult you like I did to some people , but I see your opinions as prejudiced against PvE focused people. I agree on how boring it is to bypass mechanics, however Kronos raiding turned into a giant target dummies and meter humping fiesta somehow, and people are liking it. Nothing we can do about it.

 

[Oidd]

^^ /salute. I cant really say anything against your points.

I just hope more people would think the way you do (and understand how some things are like you do).


i have huge respect for hardcore pve players (i was in that kind myself for years in retail) and i have no doubt most people in the top guilds are really good players and nice people.

I just feel that the fun (my understanding of fun) is being a secondary goal for many people lately.
(i find it more fun and rewarding to get better in a fight, improving team coordination, personal performance, managing your mana/resources better and having a nice raid but the whole obsession about 1) buffs/consumables requiring huge effort before raids and 2) meter-whoring personally puts me off )

 

[Topmong]

People that kill critters like SNAIKS in ZG, bugs in AQ40 etc, in order to look better.

You're a shit warrior if you're not killing critters for rage when you have spare swings to expend.

 

[Desplice]

I agree that Kronos raiding currently feels like hitting target dummies and I hardly see why we need another raid instance full of target dummies to hit. We have three 40-mans and two 20-mans which can still work as target dummies for the meter junkies among us. They can still use their Naxx gear to set new DPS records in these.

But I don't really see what Naxxramas would add to it that makes it worthwhile for Kronos developer staff to spend hours of their time on if it's just another raid instance full of target dummies to hit. World buffs in Naxx would serve those who are only interested in meters because they can go completely ham on Patchwerk. For all others they will ruin what could otherwise be a great raid experience. Let's face it: if buffs are available they will be used.

Many players are here for nostalgic reasons and I do feel nostalgia when questing and doing 5-mans. Raiding on the other hand is a complete joke in it's current state.

I'm in one of the more successful guilds on our server by the way. I like my guild, I get my world buffs because I'm expected to and I don't even see it as much of an issue to be online half an hour before the actual raid starts. I just don't like what world buffs turn raiding into.

 

[Jahreno]

You're a shit warrior if you're not killing critters for rage when you have spare swings to expend.

Ugh, yeah.. So what? Buttrustled because you're doing it always, and not letting your tanks get the extra rage? Oke. If not jumping on fucking CRITTERS for damage/rage makes me a shit warrior, im fine with being one. I take pride in being one. Now move along mongoloid.

ps : i have seen mages, warlock and rogues doing it, death coiling or fire blasting those things dont help with THEIR resource generation afaik(I actually tried on my warlock, you get only critter's health as return). As for rogues, unless they're doing some CS/Garrote>Stopattack>Slice&Dice action on fucking CRITTERS, it doesnt help them with anything either. Say what you want, its meter humping.

 

[Tarylia]

Ugh, yeah.. So what? Buttrustled because you're doing it always, and not letting your tanks get the extra rage? Oke. If not jumping on fucking CRITTERS for damage/rage makes me a shit warrior, im fine with being one. I take pride in being one. Now move along mongoloid.

ps : i have seen mages, warlock and rogues doing it, death coiling or fire blasting those things dont help with THEIR resource generation afaik(I actually tried on my warlock, you get only critter's health as return). As for rogues, unless they're doing some CS/Garrote>Stopattack>Slice&Dice action on fucking CRITTERS, it doesnt help them with anything either. Say what you want, its meter humping.

This is not a forum for your petulent crying and constant trolling. Take part in the conversation as a whole and add something constructive or gtfo. You've either been raging at people, talking bullshit or spoken from a position you don't occupy (that of "hardcore" raiders).

 

[Jahreno]

I have added as much as I could, as a constructive comment above, however none of that positively worded opinion that no one should get offended by would add anything to your pre-existing jimmy condition. I thought hardcore raiding was about farming consumables and trying to optimize your gameplay. Thats how you become a good warrior, chain-facepalming on the other hand makes you a good forum warrior, you might even get to a point where you can tank all forum aggro. Keep it up.

 

[Topmong]

Mate you have 7 stamina on boots as a warlock
http://armory.twinstar.cz/character-sheet.xml?r=Kronos&cn=Jahreno&gn=Genesis

Maybe you're better off spending time optimizing your gameplay than going off on the forums?

 

[gly]

Serious question: why not play PvE on TBC or other later expansions instead of this crap? I haven't experienced it properly for myself but from what I've seen so far (in TBC at least), there's less time wasted on consumables and farming world buffs, and more time on individual performance (i.e. 'skill') playing classes that have more than two abilities in a rotation. I won't accept any answer that involves the argument that vanilla WoW raiding is challenging or "hardcore".
Thanks.

 

[Jahreno]

That is a summon/farm/consumable alt... Why are you reducing the level of argument into personal attacks, similar to ad hominem? )D She is a social in a guild that no longer raids, havent been a part of any raid for 7+ months, haha. You're being hilarious.

Serious question: why not play PvE on TBC or other later expansions instead of this crap? I haven't experienced it properly for myself but from what I've seen so far (in TBC at least), there's less time wasted on consumables and farming world buffs, and more time on individual performance (i.e. 'skill') playing classes that have more than two abilities in a rotation. I won't accept any answer that involves the argument that vanilla WoW raiding is challenging or "hardcore".
Thanks.

That is one of the things many of us wonder. I suppose its because at the time we rolled on this server there were simply no fresh TBC server with decent scripting or promising outlook. There still isnt one, as I wont ever count Molten's new realm(p2w, fake que, pay to bypass..) as anything decent to play on.
BTW, the part about less time wasted might be a little wrong. Considering if you wanna be hardcore raider in vanilla you're somewhat expected to have gnomish engineering. But in TBC, the number of consumables decrease while profession changes you have to make increases. E.g., a rogue would have to change his professions multiple times, from LW/Skin to LW/Engi, then to LW/JC, after getting crafted ring/neck from Sunwell to LW/Enchant so he can enchant his rings. He may even have to get enchanting even before that too, as well as BS for weapons. Only difference in TBC is that there is no boosted numbers, no fake dps, no world buffs. You just farm your stuff and log in 15 minutes before a raid, enjoy it and call it a day. Instead of days of preparation. Only thing that will matter is how proficient you are in your class. Hope i could make it a bit clear.

 

[Horo]

It's sad to see that some people don't understand that people play the game for different reasons.

It's sad to see how you facepalm every single comment that doesn't agree with your point of view. TL;DR

 

[OnslaughtFei]

fundamental question being posed in this thread is disabling world buffs.

if you dont want world buffs in vanilla wow you disabled them on day 1 and make that the server manifesto.

most people arguing against it are way too late and are motivated to grief others out of jealousy or laziness.

a lot of people ARE raiding in tbc. some at the same time as kronos but many are former kronos. i keep in contact with many former-kronos players. their displeasure with the server is varied and wide but world buffing is not one of them.

there are no mechanics in WOW that are difficult. None. very few are nostalgic, almost no one in onslaught except myself are in their mid-30's and raided naxx in 2006. almost everyone in onslaught this is there first time playing vanilla wow and raiding. i never played wow after early 2007 and have no diluted memories of other versions of wow, most people are clueless on mechanics and raiding fundamentals. i didnt play other private servers before kronos and dont plan to after kronos.

you can watch a speed run of super mario world in under 10 minutes. it took me at least 10 hours when the game first came out when i was 9. i dont try to tear down people maximizing old games for some inflated sense of nostalgia.

 

[Tarylia]

most people arguing against it are way too late and are motivated to grief others out of jealousy or laziness.

Straight up wrong, most people are motivated by the ambience created by world-buffs and the annoying meter chasing that is making people play badly.

their displeasure with the server is varied and wide but world buffing is not one of them.

Even more wrong. Every single day I raid there is a massive discussion from more than half the people in our guild that despise world-buffs. Vast majority of us agree world-buffs should either be left alone completely or removed completely(temporarily), no middle-ground. Most on the side of removed completely.

very few are nostalgic, almost no one in onslaught except myself are in their mid-30's and raided naxx in 2006. almost everyone in onslaught this is there first time playing vanilla wow and raiding. i never played wow after early 2007 and have no diluted memories of other versions of wow, most people are clueless on mechanics and raiding fundamentals.

I don't know why you keep using your guild as a measurement of what is going on in the server. Other guilds the majority of people raided in vanilla and quite a few of them did Naxx. I raided in Vanilla when I was 12, you don't need to be in your mid-30s to play a game that requires bare-minimum mechanical skill.

None of what you say has any weight in this argument though. Why disable them in day1? There is such a thing as hindsight. Admitting you made a mistake and maybe just temporarily spicing things up can cause people substantial enjoyment. Why would you be apposed to a temporary removal of world-buffs for the first month or so of Naxx? Other than being generally grumpy and demoralized about the server in the first place?

 

[NedStark]

Man. shut the fuck up. All of you. Don't disable these buffs now. Who cares if a player or a raiding guild is unable to clear a content without these buffs. It's not your call to decide on how these group of people should be playing their game. If you dont like the idea that these buffs allows you to skip a certain mechanic then maybe YOU should talk to YOUR guild and agree on not getting these buffs so you all can enjoy having the "difficulties" in naxx. Many people don't share your opinion. just look at the vote number. I stated this before and I'll do it again. If the idea behind disabling buffs for naxx is to prevent guilds from clearing it from the first day. It wont make any difference.