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    TwinStar team

Petition against multiboxing

Lharts said:
Obviously... because collecting the loot and cash all by yourself will net less then splitting it by 5.
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Ah yes, your reading comprehension really is beyond what I imagined. Do you understand, that you actually have to gear all 5 toons, enchant them and even tend to their professions (as people previously seemed to be under the impression that you would actually have professions on all toons and high enough to get CDs)?
Seriously, by that logic having alts is cheating and negatively affects the economy.
 
Jahreno said:
Multiboxers can, just by showing up in a zone

1)Terrorize levelers from other faction from playing in the same zone as them, effectively dominating the area with superior firepower and numbers advantage.
2)Farm safer, faster
3)Stop any form of World PvP happening against them
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While this is not the case of every multiboxer, these reasons alone are enough to ban multiboxing imo.
 
Now you try to insult me cause your argument is plain shit, wowe. How are you even able to maintain such a high level of frustration?

You don't need gear or enchants to farm gold.

Not everyones goal as a multiboxer is to beat 5 man content solo. Alot people will use it to farm gold or materials.

"Enriching" the community with cloths and enchanting mats will just make their prices drops. How you see this as a positive point regarding multiboxing tells me about everything I need to know.
 
This discussion is heading same way as many goverments in Europe :biggrin: Stop immigration or not, stop cheap labour force :biggrin:
And pls dont stop with your disscusion atleast some threads are "interesting", how ppl moved from serious discussion to that where everyone wants to prove that their truth is the right one :smile:"Chinese"multiboxers vs. High Quality Mat co.
 
Schaka said:
Hi. Seeing as you are using my proof to make a completely different argument from the one I originally did, I would like to formally invite you to go where you came from.
I am in favor of PvE multiboxing, because it's incredibly fun to challenge yourself. The only thing the video serves to prove is that it is a lot easier than in later expansions, because you can script your rotations easily enough (as I did, using Rexas' framework OneButton).

To do this successfully, you need far superior gear than the average group running that dungeon. I am almost in full pre-raid BiS gear on all 5 chars in that video and you still see me getting my shit handed to me, despite even having CC set up properly. Not to mention the huge time investment and inevitable wipes due to shit pulls by miscontrolling your alts, or losing one for a while, having to go back, knockbacks etc.
It doesn't harm the server at all, if lucky enriches the economy in terms of cloth and enchanting mats. You need to gear 5 chars, pay for repcosts x5 (and usually higher ones than with an actual regular party) and it takes longer to achieve the same amount of gold than if you did everything regularly.

The ONLY real advantage is that you don't have to fight over who gets gear if it drops and don't have to spend time finding a suitable group. But good luck raiding on all 5 chars and good luck leveling them up, making your way to a dungeon without getting ganked multiple times because you're not allowed to fight back.
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I hope that we can turn the discussion away from insults and emotionally charged comments but rather a friendly discussion towards the topic. Thus--

I agree that multiboxing is more challenging in execution than one playing one character at a time while being easier at the same time with regard to time and that just 'is' the reason why it should not be allowed because of the capacity it gives for players to be more powerful in an efficient and effective way (regarding time) by having a full group with them at all times. Why is that the reason it shouldn't be allowed? Because if the possibility of Multi-boxing in PVE is allowed then all players whom choose to not play 5 characters at a time are set immediately at a disadvantage. A disadvantage that especially cannot be underestimated on a PvP Server.

Why? Multiboxer's have to farm things (levels, consumables, items, quest items, etc) they don't just run dungeons all day. They conflate a group and the 'advantages' that having a bunch of friends with you has', and give them to one person. How is one person supposed to defend their farming spot from a 5 man group? They don't. They instantly die, and therein are denied what charm the Vanilla experience has to offer-- the ability to be in the world and to fight other 'individuals' for territory. They give the 'power' towards one person--which is described then perhaps somewhat subtlety defined by it's adherents as 'incredibly fun and challenging'.

The question is not whether or not it gives advantages, as it clearly does. The question is whether Kronos should allow people to play the game as a whole with an advantage the entire time. Obviously it ruins PvP...Having 5 players all in concerted synchronization IS just in fact the most effective way to dominate PvP...that's why it's called a battleground--because you're in a group!
 
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Lharts said:
Now you try to insult me cause your argument is plain shit, wowe. How are you even able to maintain such a high level of frustration?

You don't need gear or enchants to farm gold.

Not everyones goal as a multiboxer is to beat 5 man content solo. Alot people will use it to farm gold or materials.

"Enriching" the community with cloths and enchanting mats will just make their prices drops. How you see this as a positive point regarding multiboxing tells me about everything I need to know.
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Which part of "you actually need to be vastly overgeared to be able to clear 5man content" didn't you understand? If you seriously believe multiboxers will be able to farm in open world while not being allowed to attack anybody, you are really quite delusional.
Which leaves 5mans with the only viable content that you could actually properly "farm" in. Then again, there's not much more than cloth and enchanting mats to have in those and you need a couple weeks of farming that + gear so you can even properly clear content in a timeframe that makes sense.

You all seem to think multiboxing is piss easy, but really it doesn't give you much of an advantage until you reached the point of having geared up 5 chars in pre-raid bis. Even then, you will take quite a while to clear 5mans and the content you can do without getting ganked to shit is very limited.
Unless you are someone who absolutely loves playing different classes, just playing a single character is way more effective and less time consuming. But keep repeating what other non-multiboxers have told you, because clearly the advantage is *~*huge*~* and ruins the economy entirely. I mean, I too would rather have an emtpy auction house if the server can even reach 700 people.

Zetox said:
The question is not whether or not it gives advantages, as it clearly does. The question is whether Kronos should allow people to play the game as a whole with an advantage the entire time. Obviously it ruins PvP...Having 5 players all in concerted synchronization IS just in fact the most effective way to dominate PvP...that's why it's called a battleground--because you're in a group!
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Which part of "not allowed to fight back" didn't you understand? Had you actually read what I said, you could've saved yourself the time to make this argument altogether.
 
Schaka said:
Which part of "not allowed to fight back" didn't you understand? Had you actually read what I said, you could've saved yourself the time to make this argument altogether.
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I did read what you said. You quoted my last sentence which started with the word "Obviously" which I then used as extension of the comment that you made as your last sentence. Thus I was ending on a note of agreement. Why would I make an argument for it?

Schaka said:
Which leaves 5mans with the only viable content that you could actually properly "farm" in. Then again, there's not much more than cloth and enchanting mats to have in those and you need a couple weeks of farming that + gear so you can even properly clear content in a timeframe that makes sense.

You all seem to think multiboxing is piss easy, but really it doesn't give you much of an advantage until you reached the point of having geared up 5 chars in pre-raid bis. Even then, you will take quite a while to clear 5mans and the content you can do without getting ganked to shit is very limited.
Unless you are someone who absolutely loves playing different classes, just playing a single character is way more effective and less time consuming. But keep repeating what other non-multiboxers have told you, because clearly the advantage is *~*huge*~* and ruins the economy entirely. I mean, I too would rather have an emtpy auction house if the server can even reach 700 people.
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So then are we left with a server where multiboxers can only be played in instances? Where will you be and what will you be doing once all your characters are full geared with pre-raid bis gear? Also I have never stated multiboxing is easy, but rather the opposite. On the contrary I stated that it was difficult, much more difficult in execution than one character.
 
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That's exactly what other servers do. You are allowed to play in the open world, but not allowed to attack other players, not even to defend yourself. Essentially, you are not a threat to anybody, as they can freely gank you.

In any other situation, multiboxing doesn't really give you an advantage. Or it really only does once you've geared up appropriately. At which point apparently all that you will be doing is farming mats to ruin the server's economy (instead of challening yourself by ding 5mans, maybe leveling a second setup of different classes, then running UBRS with all 10 chars, or 9 and a second tank).
 
@Schaka: you could do what others did before i am not saying it is wrong but if you allow this then you increase the workload it takes to keep them in check so they follow the rules which most don't even read, also there are multiple facts as to why it is superior and how it can ruin others experience so why even fight for it when it has no positive aspect except the multiboxer who gains clear advantages...

the game was never designed around multiboxing but players brought that and blizzard never prevented it due to the extra income that kept the numbers low but privates cannot reduce them like that, blizzard never stated they allowed for the cash but be honest with yourself do you think greedy blizz would ever allow a single customer to control unlimited free characters in a game based on being social and with the gameplay adjusted to 1 character per game application running ?

multiboxing doesn't really give you an advantage
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read every post up until now and you will see many advantages and you even posted a stream that proved an advantage in dungeons.
 
Just leave it crowlock, its hopeless.
If someone if determined to ignore all reasonable arguments thrown in his face then there is nothing you can do to sway him.

evidence-youre-wrong-comic.jpg
 
guess you are right :sad:

sad that we can't all reasonably discuss and lead a productive thread without what your picture so perfectly illustrates.
 
Arguments =/= evidence.

Fact: Statement regarding consideration between all together ban or not being able to use it in pvp.

From my understanding the belief is that multiboxing will ruin the economy of the server, and arguments are thrown towards unfair advantages in pvp (where it clearly wont be allowed). Aside from that it appearently eases up the process to find a group and the time it takes to clear instances, increase the speed of leveling, and other advantages such as that it was not intended by Blizzard.

Of course there's the argument that it is for the good of server, to instantly scare away potential players who wants to try the server out in a certain manner and actually can contribute to the server. The conviction seems to be passed out on players before a crime that to much time gives advantages has been commited, which takes me back to the superb customer selection on other private servers that was quite absurb.

Can multiboxing players scare away new players without pvp allowed? Well, sure.
Can a full griefer guild who shut down selected zones for months do the same? Absolutely.

If Kronos decides to ban multiboxing all together they'll exclude a few players, is it a correct approach? That's up for them to decide. Every organization has the right to choose who they want as customers, regardless if other customers approve of that or not. The discussion has come to a point where it is rather pointless: most of both sides arguments are present, and both sides are a bit to stubborn on their opinions to take in other perspectives. In the end a verdict will come, and regardless if people will approve of it or not I still believe this will be a great place to play at.


If I had to pick a side then I'd be for multiboxing without pvp enabled. Mostly as the majority of multiboxers I've ran across has come across as a lot more mature and stable mentally. Especially in comparison to the server trolls that keep destroying the atmosphere on respective faction, that'd be a petition I'd sign: "Displace" all world chat trolls/scammers :yes:
 
All of these arguments against multiboxing are fueled with emotion based on a perceived disadvantage. The perceived disadvantage that has been echoed many times has only been backed up by feels.

I'll still play here if multiboxing is banned or allowed, I'm sure it's the same for the other multiboxers.
 
You know, I was just pondering if there could be a technical solution that would give most people what they want out of all of this. Anybody that multiboxes know that multiboxing hinges on a few select commands, most notably /follow.

So what if we made /follow conditional?

There could be three different levels of use, depending on the type of instance:
  • In battlegrounds, nobody can follow anybody else. I can't even think of a use it could have in BGs anyway, so I don't see any loss there. Even Blizzard disabled it in BGs to prevent bots.
  • Overworld would have limited follow. A character can be followed by a single other character, and no more. That character themselves can not be followed, to prevent conga lines.
  • PvE instances would have unlimited follow capabilities.

To me this is probably the best way to allow multiboxing in a controlled, but efficient fashion. Follow has very limited use outside of multiboxing anyway, and then it's only because someone wants to go AFK while their buddy travels to where they're going. That use won't be affected. People would also be allowed to level their alts or dual box certain content, but they wouldn't be able to roam the overworld with 4 additional characters in tow and disrupt overworld activities. All the while multiboxers are allowed to do their thing in instances only where their impact would be negligible if solo, and yet still be allowed to fill the ranks of unfilled raids (which happens quite often from my experience).

I'm not an expert coder or familiar with mangos, but I can't imagine it would be difficult to implement. Plus it has the added bonus of not requiring staff intervention to sift through reports to enforce, though I suppose some people will still try to dual box in certain PvP situations. But that's bound to happen regardless if key-cloning software is allowed or not.

Or if the staff don't want multiboxing in any fashion, they could just disable /follow altogether!
 
Follow is (to my knowledge) completely clientside. At least I know of no serverside check. In fact, you can modify your client to follow literally any target. It works the same way modifiyng it to always allow Lua (even protected functions).
 
Really? Well that's unfortunate, I had always assumed it was controlled server side. But then again Blizzard is pretty good at pushing stuff off to the client to handle on its own, so it doesn't surprise me that much. It really would have been the perfect tool to regulate multiboxing.
 
Multiboxing in PvP should be definitely banned. As in, any case of a player being attacked by two or more characters played by same player at once should result in a ban for the latter. Regarding PvE, though, it's a sensitive matter. But since its going to harm the economy and other players' experience as well, I believe it should not be allowed either.
 
Lharts said:
Why are you so upset borislav?
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don't confuse my posting style as being upset, i just waste no time being politically correct- especially not when people are posting like fucktards confusing opinions with logic.

as far as anyone calling me out for "raging after the fact" or whatever, maybe you enjoy making fresh replies to the same tired "factinions" but i find it a huge waste of time :no: and before anyone tries the good old "don't post then if you have nothing good to say", that applies on both ends of the spectrum. if retards are allowed to post i see no problem bashing them.

Schaka said:
Hi. Seeing as you are using my proof to make a completely different argument from the one I originally did, I would like to formally invite you to go where you came from.
I am in favor of PvE multiboxing, because it's incredibly fun to challenge yourself. The only thing the video serves to prove is that it is a lot easier than in later expansions, because you can script your rotations easily enough (as I did, using Rexas' framework OneButton).

To do this successfully, you need far superior gear than the average group running that dungeon. I am almost in full pre-raid BiS gear on all 5 chars in that video and you still see me getting my shit handed to me, despite even having CC set up properly. Not to mention the huge time investment and inevitable wipes due to shit pulls by miscontrolling your alts, or losing one for a while, having to go back, knockbacks etc.
It doesn't harm the server at all, if lucky enriches the economy in terms of cloth and enchanting mats. You need to gear 5 chars, pay for repcosts x5 (and usually higher ones than with an actual regular party) and it takes longer to achieve the same amount of gold than if you did everything regularly.

The ONLY real advantage is that you don't have to fight over who gets gear if it drops and don't have to spend time finding a suitable group. But good luck raiding on all 5 chars and good luck leveling them up, making your way to a dungeon without getting ganked multiple times because you're not allowed to fight back.
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literally the one and only, end-all-be-all summary of why nobody needs to care about multiboxers.


god damn you nerds for the gay facepalms to Schaka's post, you are whats wrong with the general public.
you guys clearly have below average intelligence, and sorry but it's nobody's job to teach you how to use your own intellect for more than debating in terms of "multibox, BAD!!!! my idea of blizzlike, GOOD!!!"

ï mean holy shit, ****** alert to the max :D I honestly think you guys have more shit than brains

criscodiscoice said:
Make a poll on it!
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you can't really poll on something that people refuse to think logically about. the vocal minority will always be the vocal minory, and so on. if direct democracy (poll the population on literally every policy) was implemented in every democratic nation, they would all go to shit because nobody is obligated to find out the actual truth to anything.

Lharts said:
Just leave it crowlock, its hopeless.
If someone if determined to ignore all reasonable arguments thrown in his face then there is nothing you can do to sway him.

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hello russian peasant, you do realize that quantity is not quality, correct? furthermore, i'd appreciate it if you stopped posting image macros as if you think they make your point for you. they make you look very stupid. thank you!
 
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Banezilla's post with the Reddit quote was pretty much all I was after. Either multiboxing will be banned entirely, or it will be initially allowed but not with PvP use. Players being the sorts of people that they are will eventually screw up too many times and the staff will nuke the whole thing rather than deal stated exceptions. It's just a matter of time.
 
Skosh said:
Banezilla's post with the Reddit quote was pretty much all I was after. Either multiboxing will be banned entirely, or it will be initially allowed but not with PvP use. Players being the sorts of people that they are will eventually screw up too many times and the staff will nuke the whole thing rather than deal stated exceptions. It's just a matter of time.
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what do you mean. as far as i know the policy on feenix is to this day, largely successful. i've never been multiboxed save for one time, and i played religiously for over 6 months in one stretch. (no pvp multibox allowed). also saw a lot of multiboxes banned for multibox pvp on the worldwide announcements. yeah people will break rules, but they will be the exception to the rule.

there is literally no argument that can hold up against the downsides of pvp multibox. that should never be allowed in any form. pvp multibox = game breaking, pve multibox, not at al.ll.
 
So why this cheating anyway? To farm better of course. No one can deny that multiboxers will farm so much faster, that they will relatively not stop for eating/drinks if killing single monsters. This is full party(at least) against single players - it is in no way fair. And even if lets say this is ok, I still fail to see the reasoning behind cheating... I am ok with multiboxers if they don't use 3rd party windows software - just wow addons and macros. Lets see how many will multibox then... Cheaters.
 
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