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    TwinStar team

Big thanks to <Vanguard>

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I just know that p much the only person i give a damn about in Freefall, Dance has been farming this shit since Sunday the legit way with 3 groups and got only 7k~ carapraces.(and he lost half of it)

Getting that much rep just doesnt make sense without abuses, sorry.

This got edited so I figured I'd reply.
Dance farmed with 3 groups and got 7k fragments.
Is it then utterly unreasonable that we farmed with more people (can be checked with /who silithus) for a longer time and got more fragments?
Im not denying that some people abused this, it happened and I'm not proud. But this gave us a small increase in the range of ~2k at most, and not the outrageous gain some people seem to think.

If you want to ban the people who abused this bug, then do so!
But ban everyone who abused the bug, not just the guy who had his guild help him the most.
 
Yes, DarkStorm. That is correct. Two guilds farmed pretty much none stop since the fragment release, but now one of them magically has way more fragments that the other.

Hmmm, I wonder how that happens :D
 
DarkStorm, we never denied that some of our members have done it. When Davros first asked (around 4 AM server time on Sunday night), we said what happened.

Our issue is that people keep claiming that we have done those things even after the warning, which is false.

Another, much bigger, issue is that GMs seem to have taken the words of those people as true without checking, and that we are now accused of doing it the whole time and that the reputation of Klngjoffrey is all thanks to use of exploits.

We have restated multiple times throughout this thread that we estimate the reputation gained by such means to at most 3k, and not all fragments were even turned. So out of 11k that Klngjoffrey turned in, at least 8.5k was legit. Aside form that, we had the reputation farmed from Monday which was a few more thousands (with much fewer amount of people than Sunday), which never got turned in because of the action that the staff has taken which resulted in deletion of all the fragments.

Lastly, when challenged about the amount of reputation we gained, and after presenting simple math as evidence to support the legitimacy of the reputation we farmed (minus the aforementioned 2-3k), it is completely ignored and we are yet again bombed by nonsense and accusations made by people of IQ 80 or lower (like Avrora and Worstworrier).
 
We have restated multiple times throughout this thread that we estimate the reputation gained by such means to at most 3k, and not all fragments were even turned.
I just dont trust you. I saw around 6-8 characters stacked killing stuff and looting (before warning). This was late night (maybe around 3-4am server time) and you were no longer farming like you did in a raid group in Hive'Regal. Those mobs drop like 4 items each making it 24-32 fragments per mob.

And even so, 3k rep is a big deal.

If you want to ban the people who abused this bug, then do so!
But ban everyone who abused the bug, not just the guy who had his guild help him the most.
I agree. Everyone who exploited it should be banned and have their reputation reverted.
 
It is actually 156 recorded IQ, thank you very much. And as such I know how easy it is to bend the numbers so they show exactly what you want them to.

Your ''math'' would actually prove plausible, if you got the highest amount of fragments from most of the mobs, and more importantly - you were uncontested in all your 3 groups that you claim to have used for farming. Which in itself is rather foolish claim in itself since during the mid day yesterday you didnt have more than 10-15 tops in Silithus. But anyway.

Now having said that I would like to give some insight if the Silithus farming that happened yesterday.
All of our groups had claimed a big cave and its surrounding mobs outside of it in each respective hive. After killing all the mobs inside and the ones outside, it was impossible to find other mobs to kill before waiting few minutes for them to start respawning. That was the case because there were other alliance guilds farming right next to us - all of which had their own zones of mobs keeping on respawn timer. That made us wait at least 3 mins before the mobs at the cave entrance began respawning.

So in conclusion : the number you have provided are possible to farm only if you were the only guild farming the hives so you didnt have to wait for any respawns. Even the small downtime of 2-3 minutes will prove HUGE if you farm all day none-stop, drastically reducing the overall fragments you get.
 
pDviXyt.jpg
 
Your ''math'' would actually prove plausible, if you got the highest amount of fragments from most of the mobs

I used the average droprate ((1+2+3+4)/4)=2.5, not the maximum droprate (4). You would have known this had you read the reply.


If you failed to spread out proper that's not our concern, we had no problems with waiting for respawns the vast majority of the time. And if we did we just spread out more.
We did run by your group in that cave a few times, you would have 15 people or more camping one small part of one of several caves in one of several hives. Had you tried even a little to spread out you would have had greater success.
 
the fact is there is no way that people didn't realize this was an exploit.

pretending the gm's had to come out and say it for it to be true is not honest. can we at least collectively agree about this?

secondly trying to make this about being good boys after this point is also not honest or fair in relation UNLESS you fit the below criteria

do you really expect the gm's to take the time to sleuth through tons of logs just to figure out who did it legit and when, and then also go through each individuals entire accounts and delete fragments accordingly? then perhaps you should be a gm with your godlike work ethic. because you wouldn't just expect others to do work you wouldn't yourself, right? :D

sucks for the people who really didn't exploit it, but i wonder how many of you are there really. as far as onslaught you guys have a strange relationship with the truth so not too inclined to believe your story of not exploiting at all. + you started this drama thread which is exactly like you guys
 
Without taking somebody's side, I would like to remind some people in this thread that their criticism of other's behaviour would hold more value if it was presented in a mature way...

Swearing at people doesn't give your argument bonus points, instead it invalidates any proper argument you might have......


As for the rest, I really enjoy this event as a bystander , it really feels like Spring 2006 with all this drama.... I can't wait for the stage where guilds have to perform outdoor raid objectives and all the fighting that it hopefully brings.
 
The situation doesn't seem so complicated:

The player is obliged to report any bug in the game. Failing to do so or abusing the bug will be punished based on the decision of a competent person.

It doesn't matter if people abused it before or after the server announcement. And let the admins do the math, they scripted such beautiful server so I'm pretty sure they know how to do it.

Instead of arguing about meaningless details that no one care about, people who abused this should either shut their mouths or simply apologize to the entire community, especially to those who played in a fair way. I know that the second option wont happen, so just have the decency to be quiet.

Now to everyone, stop throwing poop to each others, it's a freeking game! Bugs and bugs abusers are not new to private servers, we can't be that scandalized. I know that acting like others are "less intelligent" than us is a common behavior, even in real life, but this thread is getting super lame with all the "my IQ is higher than yours" and "your math is wrong, mine is right" or "you're too stupid to understand what I've wrote" etc.

We're all mature fellas, c'mon! Let's show them Nostril noobs how real Kronos machos can deal with such issues :yes: (lol...)

See you in game my dear nerds friends :w00t:
 
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Well this thread is targeted towards Vanguard and the only guy that got banned is in Vanguard (which I'm not disputing).
 
Greetings friends and abusers,

All I did was write to Nedstark that I expect a proper punishment, not a warning, about what happened at Sunday. I never wrote to anybody that I saw somebody abusing the exploit after the warning. Everything you write is getting twisted in their favour. Thats just normal interracting with VG.

The ban is a good step in the right direction, BUT (quoting Ermean: It's easy to track who abused it), there will be further actions, hopefully targeting the right persons. We have no problem in losing the race with fair opponents, but that's not acceptable, and the GM's will do their work, i'm sure.
To be clear, we don't want to start a flamewar or harm anybody who doesn't deserve it, but that is frustrating.


pDviXyt.jpg
 
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It is obviously a systematic witch hunt for our guild

Trust me, we have a lot better things we'd rather be doing than to witch hun you and your guild. When you do stuff like that exploit it only makes more work for us. More work for us = More volunteer work = More time spent away from things we'd rather be doing.

It's stuff like this that makes an enjoyable part time hobby become a second full time job, except without the pay. If you quit taking advantage of the system when clearly you are aware of how the system is suppose to work like a majority of the server then you wouldn't find yourself in this kind of position.

First Gm's stating that it will be considered abuse "from now on". They also claimed that they would be watching logs. If that was the case they should provide logs of Klngjoffrey doing it after the post.

Having made that announcement, the announcement was made to get all players to stop that behaviour immediately. We could not go back and punish all players in Silithus for doing something when we had no proof at that moment in time. The warning was issued after we were only finally made aware of this bug after numerous hours (and only made aware of it when we questioned a member of your guild. Had I not pulled them in I highly doubt anyone from your guild would have willingly provided that information). I did not say during said announcement that we will not be going back to punish offenders, punishment requires evidence which we were able to gather later on.
If anything, you should be thanking that member of your guild for telling us about the exploit after we asked, he likely saved most of your guild members from a probable ban.

banning one person

Said person was the person who benefited the most of this exploit on the entire server based on hard facts. If you did not read through Chero's entire post or chose to skim over it, there are more bans to come.

Another, much bigger, issue is that GMs seem to have taken the words of those people as true without checking\

For clarification. At the time we receive two tickets of a possible exploit in Silithus, we had no knowledge that this had been going on for numerous hours prior. After we gathered some information, we asked a member of one of the guilds who were supposedly taking advantage of this. To their credit, they did confirm the bug and behaviour (but again only after we had to ask them). Once we knew about the exploit and it was confirmed we immediately sent out a warning to all. At that point we started a long 24+ hours worth of investigating logs that is still ongoing.
It has been proven in the past that you cannot take peoples words alone as evidence, and as such we don't. Hard evidence is required through gathering information from numerous sources. We do the best we can whether you agree with decisions or punishments, or you don't.
 
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The silithus farm is intense right now, but in a couple weeks it will be done, and it will be history.

The history that will be told will unfortunately be one about abuse, rather than one about winning a fair race.
Consider the players who raid tonight, who will not have benefitted from the bug - they are now 10.000 reputation (or 4.000 elites killed) behind others. This in just 1 day?
Everytime someone see a player riding that scarab mount, it's going to remind you that Kronos didn't have a proper war efforts quest-chain. That Kronos is bugged.

The only way to revert this sad fact, is to go back in time and do it. We have this opportunity here. Unban the players and reset everyones reputation to 0. For the future history of Kronos, this is the only sollution.

#UnbanAndReset
 
Trust me, we have a lot better things we'd rather be doing than to witch hun you and your guild. When you do stuff like that exploit it only makes more work for us. More work for us = More volunteer work = More time spent away from things we'd rather be doing.

It's stuff like this that makes an enjoyable part time hobby become a second full time job, except without the pay. If you quit taking advantage of the system when clearly you are aware of how the system is suppose to work like a majority of the server then you wouldn't find yourself in this kind of position.

When you make this huge response to it sure you will have to put in a lot of unnecessary work. After Davros announcement both vg and synced stopped problem solved. If you think it was unfair to the other guilds we can farm 3 k fragments and give to gurky and synced does the same and all guilds are at the same place. A few days ban is not an unreasonable punishment either if you punish both guilds equally.
I really don't see why you would overreact like this ruining for the whole server over such a small issue as 3k ish rep for two guilds which can be compensated for easily. I would suggest a more pragmatic approach anyways.

Also Chero I do not mean that you are the one trying to bring us down, merely bowing down to the a amount of ppl screaming at vg for whatever reason.
 
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Clearly it not 'just' about a few thousand reputation. It is also the underlying notion of Egotism in the Face of a Server wide event that was and is anticipated by everyone playing here.
May it be people abusing bugs or being smug, having done 'nothing wrong' making up bogus calculations and downplaying what has actually occurred, namely a Massive breach of trust.And I think this Egotism and breach is what rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.
This more than any number of reputation points gained unfairly is what grinds my gears and which I deem to be a big No No.
 
The silithus farm is intense right now, but in a couple weeks it will be done, and it will be history.

The history that will be told will unfortunately be one about abuse, rather than one about winning a fair race.
Consider the players who raid tonight, who will not have benefitted from the bug - they are now 10.000 reputation (or 4.000 elites killed) behind others. This in just 1 day?
Everytime someone see a player riding that scarab mount, it's going to remind you that Kronos didn't have a proper war efforts quest-chain. That Kronos is bugged.

The only way to revert this sad fact, is to go back in time and do it. We have this opportunity here. Unban the players and reset everyones reputation to 0. For the future history of Kronos, this is the only sollution.

#UnbanAndReset
Reseting the rep for everyone is really unfair. Resetting the amount of rep gained by exploiting is the fair way although I imagine calculating that is both difficult and time consuming.

To me it feels like you are saying "We didnt start farming on time and now people are ahead of us, pls reset". Which to our guild would feel like a smack in the face with the effort we already put in.
 
Can anyone tell me why exactly you need to farm the brood rep and how much? To start shifting sands quest or what?
 
Reseting the rep for everyone is really unfair. Resetting the amount of rep gained by exploiting is the fair way although I imagine calculating that is both difficult and time consuming.

To me it feels like you are saying "We didnt start farming on time and now people are ahead of us, pls reset". Which to our guild would feel like a smack in the face with the effort we already put in.

the bugs are supposed to drop 1-4 carapaces per kill. thats 2.5 on average. Only one person should be able to loot them.
The bug was that any amount of players could loot them, so if you had 19 people helping you, then you got 20 people looting 2.5 each

So instead of getting 2.5 per kill, you're getting 50
1 day of farming this way, is 20 days worth of farming under normal conditions.
1 day of farming this way is what those players got.

Someone who loots the broodlord head on wednesday, will not be 3 days behind the players who got it on sunday. He could be anywhere from 3 days to 23 days behind on the farm. You're telling me this is no big deal?

I repeat: Kronos scarab lords are forever unlegit if the reputation is not reset. Fucking shame
 
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the fact is there is no way that people didn't realize this was an exploit

This is the exact same thing that happened on ED, the people who did it got banned, and many of these people came from ED so yeah. :biggrin:
 
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