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    TwinStar team

Nerf Ironfoe

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Peasemold said:
Little bit. I laughed fucking hard at the "highest ranked wrath through wod" shit.
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not sure why that's funny, but i can guess why you two like each other so much
both massively outgear other players of the same class in your guilds and both do shit ass dps
 
Ahlaundoh said:
not sure why that's funny, but i can guess why you two like each other so much
both massively outgear other players of the same class in your guilds and both do shit ass dps
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Peasemold and me never got along well, but sometimes we can just set aside our differences and collectively laugh at the bullshit coming out of your mouth.
 
Ahlaundoh said:
not sure if anything i said was bullshit
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it's almost as if you had the attention span of a fruit fly. Chain did an okay job pointiong some of the flaws out, but if I had to point out all the fallacies you commited in this thread I wouldn't be done by tomorrow, which is in roughly 3.5 hours.
 
Ahlaundoh said:
not sure why that's funny, but i can guess why you two like each other so much
both massively outgear other players of the same class in your guilds and both do shit ass dps
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Been playing and raiding on this server for a year+. The majesty of try harding and padding meters to look good to others has long since worn off.

Ask me if I give a shit what someone thinks about my "performance".
 
hey peasemold, do you even give a sht about what others think about your performance?
 
honestly can't believe that you people are that god damn stupid to think that a lv 55 weapon should be better than the FINAL lv 60 weapon of the game just because it's a lower drop chance
 
Novakayne said:
honestly can't believe that you people are that god damn stupid to think that a lv 55 weapon should be better than the FINAL lv 60 weapon of the game just because it's a lower drop chance
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See:
Lharts said:
Ironfoe and many other items are the reason why blizzard does not design items anymore that scale with your gear.
Vanilla, hi. Deal with it.
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You don't even need Ironfoe on horde, you have windfury. Alliance have no choice.
 
Peasemold said:
See:



You don't even need Ironfoe on horde, you have windfury. Alliance have no choice.
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saying "vanilla, deal with it" doesn't really work on a server that makes changes to make the game less blizzlike

there is absolutely no reason that ironfoe should be better than gressil
 
On Kronos, crying of a minority on forum actually DOES bring results, based on past experiences. So all those in favor of keeping Ironfoe as it is should be more vocal or you will end up finding your weapon nerfed to the ground one day because the staff at some point decided to agree with the cries.
 
Ahlaundoh said:
How exactly is this "crying"? You two realize I have Ironfoe right?
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Forgive me for using the term "crying" so freely, I am perhaps too strict. But you saying you have Ironfoe leads me to believe that you realized that you are not getting any of the cool-looking endgame weapons because of it and are feeling dissatisfied. I may be wrong with this conjecture, of course.

Ironfoe offers a different playstyle compared to the conventional weapons, and in hands of those who know how to use it, it sometimes comes out on top. You are now asking to completely remove that from the game because your opinion is that a pre-raid item should not be superior to Naxxramas epics. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it completely. You should also respect opinions of those who actually like the weapon as it is and the playstyle it brings. Why should they be denied those things because you prefer it being done in a different way - especially since current behavior is actually blizzlike and the way item apparently always has been?
 
bl4ckc0d3r said:
Forgive me for using the term "crying" so freely, I am perhaps too strict. But you saying you have Ironfoe leads me to believe that you realized that you are not getting any of the cool-looking endgame weapons because of it and are feeling dissatisfied. I may be wrong with this conjecture, of course.

Ironfoe offers a different playstyle compared to the conventional weapons, and in hands of those who know how to use it, it sometimes comes out on top. You are now asking to completely remove that from the game because your opinion is that a pre-raid item should not be superior to Naxxramas epics. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it completely. You should also respect opinions of those who actually like the weapon as it is and the playstyle it brings. Why should they be denied those things because you prefer it being done in a different way - especially since current behavior is actually blizzlike and the way item apparently always has been?
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opinion or not, you can't disagree that it's a fundamental issue with the game that a level 55 weapon can be better than the ultimate 60 raid weapon

especially on a server that is CLEARLY not trying to be blizzlike
 
Novakayne said:
it's a fundamental issue with the game that a level 55 weapon can be better than the ultimate 60 raid weapon
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Why is it a fundamental issue? You make this claim but... why do you expect us to believe it is true? You stated an opinion. Thank you for it.

You are trying to get into heads of game designers now and tell rest of us what they intended and what they did not. That cannot be taken seriously. Just leave it be. After all, they had the whole ~2 years of vanilla to nerf the weapon had they decided it was wrong. Yet, they did not.

No one forces you to use Ironfoe. Let those who want to use it be able to.
 
bl4ckc0d3r said:
Why is it a fundamental issue? You make this claim but... why do you expect us to believe it is true? You stated an opinion. Thank you for it.

You are trying to get into heads of game designers now and tell rest of us what they intended and what they did not. That cannot be taken seriously. Just leave it be. After all, they had the whole ~2 years of vanilla to nerf the weapon had they decided it was wrong. Yet, they did not.

No one forces you to use Ironfoe. Let those who want to use it be able to.
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how isn't it a fundamental issue? in an mmorpg you run easier instances (5 mans) to be able to do the harder instances (40 mans) when your character is stronger

if ironfoe stays as it is, then it is defeating the whole purpose of the game being an mmorpg

so please explain how that means it's not a fundamental issue
 
bl4ckc0d3r said:
Why is it a fundamental issue? You make this claim but... why do you expect us to believe it is true? You stated an opinion. Thank you for it.

You are trying to get into heads of game designers now and tell rest of us what they intended and what they did not. That cannot be taken seriously. Just leave it be. After all, they had the whole ~2 years of vanilla to nerf the weapon had they decided it was wrong. Yet, they did not.

No one forces you to use Ironfoe. Let those who want to use it be able to.
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That's because no one knew how good it was. Can you tell me honestly that you don't think the vanilla wow dev team would have nerfed this item into oblivion if it was being used like it is on Kronos?
If you can, then maybe you've never read any patch notes.
 
bl4ckc0d3r said:
After all, they had the whole ~2 years of vanilla to nerf the weapon had they decided it was wrong. Yet, they did not.
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You can't really use this as an argument considering how differently the game is viewed and approached these days by players and developers alike compared to back then, your own guild is a pretty good example of it on the player side. Considering how Kronos has previously made deviations from retail in order to provide a slightly more balanced product that have been met with general approval (line of sight from world objects, 5g respec costs for example), I don't see how it's completely atypical to ask for changes to Ironfoe: a weapon which adds a whole lot of RNG on top of the already very random vanilla physical dps, which I've observed to generally be a fairly disliked aspect along tryhard dps players.

I personally don't care much about competing on dps charts nor whether an item from way lower content is the best in slot weapon, Stormrager had some relevance even at 70 and I was alright with it. However, I have some friends on this server who enjoy trying to push physical dps and are fairly good at it, and none of them seem to enjoy the concept of Ironfoe being the ultimate warrior weapon.

Rather than caring about a fix, I'm more curious about the actual reason why you and Peasemold seem to find it so important to defend this weapon if you allegedly don't care about competing on dps meters. Surely there's some reason for you to defend the weapon to this extent, what is it? It's obviously not about whether it's blizzlike or not, considering you've benefited a lot from non-blizzlike account creation, respec costs and whatnot.
 
Topmong said:
You can't really use this as an argument considering how differently the game is viewed and approached these days by players and developers alike compared to back then, your own guild is a pretty good example of it on the player side. Considering how Kronos has previously made deviations from retail in order to provide a slightly more balanced product that have been met with general approval (line of sight from world objects, 5g respec costs for example), I don't see how it's completely atypical to ask for changes to Ironfoe: a weapon which adds a whole lot of RNG on top of the already very random vanilla physical dps, which I've observed to generally be a fairly disliked aspect along tryhard dps players.

I personally don't care much about competing on dps charts nor whether an item from way lower content is the best in slot weapon, Stormrager had some relevance even at 70 and I was alright with it. However, I have some friends on this server who enjoy trying to push physical dps and are fairly good at it, and none of them seem to enjoy the concept of Ironfoe being the ultimate warrior weapon.

Rather than caring about a fix, I'm more curious about the actual reason why you and Peasemold seem to find it so important to defend this weapon if you allegedly don't care about competing on dps meters. Surely there's some reason for you to defend the weapon to this extent, what is it? It's obviously not about whether it's blizzlike or not, considering you've benefited a lot from non-blizzlike account creation, respec costs and whatnot.
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I think the people who are so vehemently defending Ironfoe don't actually believe it should remain unchanged, but are instead arguing for the sake of arguing, which happens a lot on these forums.
Another thing - an earlier post stated that I was in the "crying minority". I don't think there's a single person in my guild who thinks it's fine for Ironfoe to be as strong as it is. I have multiple alts in Alliance guilds too, and the general consensus is the same.
 
Topmong said:
Rather than caring about a fix, I'm more curious about the actual reason why you and Peasemold seem to find it so important to defend this weapon
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Because you want to kill something for no good reason. What I said was to let something that is different be, if people want to bother with farming it and playing differently.

Why did I use words "for no good reason"? I will give you a few examples.

First good example is this: during the prime period of BWL era, the first two warrior characters which were ranked as #1 and #2 average DPS versus BWL on realmplayers were Nedstark's two characters. His gnome warrior with Ironfoe, Topdog, had roughly 40 DPS more and was raiding with CORAL. His character Nedstark, was raiding in Vanguard. And from this people may draw wrong conclusion, but thing is that longer execute phase benefits warrior DPS more than shorter kill times. Overall, Vanguard had shorter kill times than CORAL and CORAL used to do a lot of what they called benchmark raids where they go all out on all bosses by taking their time to make sure people have 5 min cooldowns on every boss and such. So in such an environment, his Ironfoe warrior had merely 40 DPS more on average versus BWL bosses than his r14 warrior in a guild where the aim was to get fights over with ASAP with little regard for any individual player's DPS.

A second example would be comparing our best Ironfoe warrior who is quite a skilled player, Akanimo, to other furies in our guild. This "best weapon in the game that puts Naxx items to shame", as you call it, doesn't seem to help him much against players such as Nedstark and Tistles. Back in the beginning of AQ period, we've had Relada and Gurokun scoring top DPS as well in our Ahn'Qiraj raids. The point I am trying to make is that having Ironfoe doesn't really make furies stand out much from other furies with Chromatically Tempered Swords who know what they are doing.

Your whole claim that Ironfoe is a God-sent weapon that beats the game is just plain false. It simply offers a different playstyle to those who prefer it, which may result in higher lifetime records when all stars align, but on average it gives no distinct advantage over other options.
 
This whole thread is just useless. I already tried to explain you with the example of the lvl 19 mage talent. How can it be so much stronger than many lvl 60 talents of other classes? That feels also not right in place. Ignite is the reason why you play fire as a mage, so why is it not the final talent? Well, it is as it is, because vanilla was an early version of the game wow has become today and there were mistakes but also very nice things made by the devs. And that is why we all love and play vanilla, because it is so raw, imperfect and special. Just not the 100 times washed version of retail wow. So maybe you remember this and accept the fact that blizzlike ironfoe is just okay as it is.
 
The solution is to nerf Ignite and Ironfoe and Thunderfury and Hand of Justice and [...]

[years later]

Demon Hunter with double jump.
 
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