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    TwinStar team

Information Warlock Summoning

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Davros said:
There is a place for competitive advantage in WoW, we're not against it. This is kind of the point of the steps we took. If players want a competitive advantage, it should be earned. Levelling a lock to 20 is not really work especially when a majority of them were levelled in groups of 5 with imps auto attacking mobs to level.
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Please don't eat these words in a month.
 
Davros said:
I greatly appreciate your post. This is the kind of input/criticism that is more constructive than salty. I mentioned it earlier that a handful of people doing this behaviour doesn't hurt the server. The problem is when that handful become a lot. We have gathered numerous evidence of groups of warlocks from the same player on numerous accounts afk levelling until level 20 to become summon alts. We have researched just how rampant lvl 20 warlocks became, their locations around the world. We thoroughly investigated this and debated for some time as to how to handle this. That handful which was sustainable quickly became the Tragedy Of The Commons and kept increasing towards hazardous numbers.

So the hope (again, everything we try to do is adaptive and not set in stone) is by simply raising the summoning level cap this will weed out those simply abusing the ability because it's there and "quick & easy", from those who do work hard and want a "competitive advantage".

Yes it sucks that we had to make this change. But our hope that this slides the scale back from abuse to a handful of players. It's easy to afk level to 20 and put in little effort to get to it. This happened a lot. But those who say they are hardcore and are all about competitive advantage, now you have it because it's much less likely you will face the same kind of lock summoning competition that you faced previously and it greatly limits the abuse of avoiding in game mechanics of the world.
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Thank you for the answer. I see what you mean, but I can also empathize with my fellow guildmates' outrage in a way. I personally leveled my warlock alt at the time just because I wanted to be a raider at the time, since I had a lot of free time on my hands and wanted to enjoy the PvE experience to the fullest after nearly 10 years. That being said I still thought that it is not how the game should be played. The reason it was allowed on retail is pretty obvious, since you had to pay tons of money in order to gain even the slightest edge over others, heck maybe Blizzard even thought of it at a certain point, that people might go this far, just to get firstkills etc.

I still feel that this was not handled well though. I think it is in fact ridiculous to have 10+ warlocks all over the continents, but maybe there could have been attempts at some reduction of the amounts rather than "completely" disabling it. People (some at least) have spent days in /played while leveling the alts and you stomp all over that by implementing this rule without even a slightest warning. This decision must have been hard to make, since you had to know what it may cause. All of these decisions must be hard, even with the releasing of D2 quest chains and other earlier released content, I hope it won't bite you back in the long run :/
 
NotSachi said:
Please don't eat these words in a month.
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I'd rather not have to eat my words, but we're hopeful that these measures will resolve the problem. Again it's not the few, it's the norm that we are trying to prevent. We did say this is an adaptive approach and we will be monitoring things. Currently there are a couple of groups afk levelling locks, letting pets do all the damage while they do nothing. So for those few who did level to 20 legitimately, there are many who choose to skirt the system.
 
Worstworrier said:
and i doubt that palid skeleton living in a cave will leave server coz he cant summ his chars anymore.
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Hmph well this palid skeleton is leaving the server. Peace guys!

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Davros said:
Levelling a lock to 20 is not really work especially when a majority of them were levelled in groups of 5 with imps auto attacking mobs to level.
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You're wrong if you think most of us leveled up our warlocks that way. That was definitely a recent development that I didn't take part in. If you had issues with imps killing things while people AFKd, why didn't you fix that instead of ruining summoning alts?
 
Dropping by to /cheer the decision taken by Chero and Co., both as an individual player here since Day 1, and as one of the leaders of a very well established Kronos raiding guild, Horizon.

I loathe sounding so formal above, but I want it to be clear that your effort to keep Kronos close to the 2006 experience is appreciated.

And, while I am not in the business of giving advice to other guilds about how to manage themselves, I would plead with everyone A who is upset about this to not cause needless negative PR for this community through dramatic reactions and B I would also like to further point out to Vanguard in particular that this change has basically just given you all Nightmare Dragons on a silver platter and, subsequently, an edge over everyone else in Ahn’Qiraj, given that you are the only guild that will require of each of your members to level up Warlocks. Perhaps only half of your roster may actually do so, but that is plenty. Before today, it was possible for a couple of Officers in fellow raiding guilds to compete with your entire Warlock-leveling roster by single-handedly putting their own guild on an equal footing. It is us, the few who tried to help our raiding communities keep up with your roster-wide policies, that are being punished now. These individual efforts are from now on implausible, so you will be fully rewarded for your roster-wide dedication, rejoice.

Good thoughts to every single guild on Kronos,
And even more so to Chero’s crew!

P.S. I would like to preclude accusations of schadenfreude on my (our) part by making it clear that I am (and, because of that, so is my guild) one of the players most impacted by this change; and, since an image is worth a thousand words, here are twelve thousand: Dire Maul @ Mulgore @ Yojamba Isle @ Felwood @ Blackrock Mountain @ Onyxia’s Lair @ Zul’Gurub @ Ahn’Qiraj @ Feralas @ Ashenvale @ Duskwood @ The Hinterlands. And I am not one of the players who leveled his Warlocks by placing pets on Aggressive.
Thank you Chero for keeping it real.
 
I am just curious what will happen if we level our warlocks to level 45... Mindblowing...

/speculation start
Another "fix"?
/speculation end

And AFKLeveling will not be possible, since some *cough*onsluts*cough* were already hunting our lvl 20 warlocks.

Thank you.
 
Davros said:
Take a trip to wesfall ;)
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tried and failed. Well for a certain amount of levels it is possible. But later in non neutral zones. nope.

And btw you saw maybe yourself what the hordes did and how they can prevent leveling like that in neutral zones. Even easier to prevent afk leveling in non neutral zones. And I know for sure they will come and camp. So, I would not afk leveling anymore.

But still, the big question is what will happen, IF we level the locks to level 45? Is it worth investing more time or will there be another "fix"?

I suggest you make an official statement on that!

Devros, Chero, Gurky?
 
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as some ppl mention, the actions taken right now, won't change the picture about endgame raiding at all.

so if the staff wanted to make a change, they'll have to rethink once more and come up with other changes/rules to stop abusive behavior.

on private servers it has become a norm to abuse every little thing to gain an advantage over others. and they're able to do so because they know what content is coming in the future and what's important for that. info that players have never had when playing live on retail.

enough other private servers have already shown what will happen on kronos aswell when the relating content becomes available.

soulstoning entire raids by warlocks characters that won't be used in the raid itself will become a thing if it doesn't get prohibited.

raising the level requirement of warlocks in order to summon other people will make people just level them to what's required.

also, the dynamic respawn was an awesome step to solve a problem during the leveling of the first big wave of players when the server launched, but ever since that leveling phase has been over the dynamic respawn mechanic only made players abuse it everywhere. be it juju farming in winterspring, aoe farming in hearthglen or whatever else. it will also lead to big abuse when you enable the AQ scepter quest.
players will be able to make the bugs respawn much faster than normal to farm the silithis fragments alot more efficient.

so yeah, if these are concerns the team wants to fix, you'll have to sit down again.

preferably quick so player's know what's awaiting them so they can take counter-measures.... errr i mean to be informed and not be devastated by rules change!
 
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May the world bosses now go to the guild with the largest amount of 60 warlocks who quit!

Good luck gentlemen.
 
"Hardcore players" you say? Well I might only be on this server for less than a week but on two separate occasions I´ve met 5 lock botting party in starting locations. The player was so "hardcore" that his 5 locks were able to cast spells in exactly same time.

I would say on one hand, maybe this could have been somehow predicted by GMs thanks to the nature of the acc system but looking back that´s a long and speculative shoot. On the other hand after reading through this topic it´s crystal clear that some players (or group of players) got too greedy about this advantage and decided that "in the name of hardcore" they should just make the game only about quick porting through every important location without having to make any useless steps. Well this game (especially in Vanilla) is one big waste of time to achieve even something minor. If this change means less botting scumbags with 5 lock parties, then its a good decision.
 
Snuffles said:
Is this a ridiculous suggestion or does someone think it's plausible? :wacko:
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It is a ridiculous suggestion.

1) It's not in any practical way enforceable. It's just not.

2) It's a very fun and very practical perk of private server to have multiple accounts. Destroying it for everyone just to prevent a handful of tryhards to abuse the system is just ridiculous. If it's to get so heavy-handed, just let people abuse, honestly.

3) The manpower required would be absolutely ridiculous, for more than dubious results and even more pissed off people.

4) If it's to waste so much manpower, it would be easier and more efficient to just check for punctual warlock abuse than try to enforce an absurd "only one account per player" rule (note : "it would be easier" doesn't mean "it would be feasable").


I'm not a fan of changing how a core spell works, but at least they tried to keep it relatively impact-free for the rest of the population. You're just trying to suggest that everyone in the city should have their hands cut so there would be less pickpockets.
 
I have one summoning warlock for BRM after felwood buff and he took me less than 3 hours to level it to 20 (lol what a commitment). It was bullshit, and i am glad the change was made.

Half the server population is Summoning alt (lvl20+low lvl nearby).
A cleanup of all low lvl alt on high lvl zone would be much appreciated.
 
sworzeh said:
Why? Did you hear that I disenchanted all my gear and send the shards and all my items away?

Pls don't be mad, daddy.
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Stop posting and leave then. No one cares. Good riddance to bad trash. There's nothing hardcore about someone who cries on the forums that he has to spend another day or two getting 25 levels to maintain his competitive edge.
 
Since when hardcore equals convenient? I for one am glad of the hardcore turn of the realm through the nerf of sand turn-ins and the level limit to summons, what's weird is that players who brag about being hardcore greet such hardcore turn threatening to quit. Where's the logic in that? Teleporting around isn't hardcore, walking while mounted is. By leveling summoning alts you're not putting more effort into it than others, you're making steps to be able to put little to no effort eventually. Ironically enough, you're going along the same path of retail WoW... on a vanilla realm.

Anyway, for the first time in Kronos history...
bIvEjkH.png

Maybe we're at a turning point, finally. In before it's the hundreds new lock alts: I do regular scans of the 10-50 bracket around the clock, and this is pretty much all I could find.

In respect to the lack of notice, I can't see what that would have changed. Once a similar decision has been taken, it's pointless to schedule it to a later date, no? In the end, I believe none here should worry too much, or make so much fuss about it. And to the devs & co.: keep up the good work guys :wink:
 
Lets get real here, the level 45 requirement is just a bandage and not a long term fix. In time these abusers will level these alts to 45 and do the exact same thing. We need to find a better solution than this.

Anyone in the right mind can agree this is a step in the right direction. It was ridiculous seeing 50+ people get summoned into the world boss zone within seconds. This was never blizzlike at all due to accounts being free and I am glad they did something about it, just like sand farming.

The summon mechanic is such a powerful one in Wow. Add in free accounts and multiple account access and you get people abusing it badly. These people who are mad because they can't use 20 alts anymore should look at the bigger picture here for the good of the server instead of being selfish and self serving.
 
The best part about this thread is that the self-proclaimed Nerd-King Ermean Manchild doesn't even know what min/max means.
 
It looks very clear from the announcement Chero gave in the opening post, that the Kronos staff want summoning alts gone from the world boss locations. A mean to have this done was to put a level restriction on summons.

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uCEKOgL.png


– Any form of mocking, insulting or otherwise doing anything in contrast to a decision of any member of the server team is strictly prohibited.


We all know what those warlocks are going to be for, but until they reach the appropriate level and end up in the zones i guess no buttons is going to be pushed.
You owe the staff an apology for wasting their time dealing with this shit and you owe the server an apology for causing this level restriction to affect anyone who had a summon alt which affected no one else whatsoever. Instead you decide to ignore the staff and play head in the sand on the issue that you've brought on the table.

When the time comes to press a button, i sure hope it will be the perma-ban one, because the behavior you're pulling is a huge slap in the face of a staff group that goes out of their way to keep the server top notch.
 
You people are delusional. Even if you restrict everyone to be only able to use 1 account to play on Kronos, we can still have summon alts on that main account and use one another's accounts as clickers. That's something that is and was perfectly doable on retail too. Difference from what we have on Kronos is very minor since it's mostly a very few (maybe 2-5) nolifers that actually have more than 1 summon alt in our guild. It saves us a few seconds by not having to logout before we summon people. That's all.

So everyone who thinks that summon alts are unnatural or unblizzlike, you are delusional. If you think that server staff needs to somehow disable them from existing then... I don't know what to say. You are playing the wrong game.
 
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