Asmodeus
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- Oct 11, 2014
Only for world bosses, of course.
Congrats Onslaught!
- Thread starter Tripwyr
- Start date
Only for world bosses, of course.
You didn't kill the boss.
EDIT: If you don't believe you need our help despite losing both of the last 2 world boss kills, then you are clearly too self-involved to deserve any of them. You're basically Kodak in the digital camera race.
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BerniSunders
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- Jan 18, 2016
Working as intended. Ripperoni.
Smooglab
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Wow. This is some serious popcorn-material. With all the enthusiasm and surplus of heatedly written paragraphs you'd think we were trying to solve the European refugee crisis or perhaps global warming. But nope, we're crying over x Alliance guild not wanting to help z Alliance and all the horrible, horrible shame attached to that.
I was surprised to even see a GM reply here, almost apologetic in nature.
The server and it's GM's create a world with boundaries for players to play in. Just as much cross-faction killing is possible, it's also possible to not kill cross-faction. If I walk to UBRS and see some lowbie question in Searing Gorge, by the multiple times above mentioned logic, I would *have* to kill him because he is not of my faction. Now we can stretch this out to a hyperbole and say: just like I don't have to gank this poor alliance guy trying to level, Horde nor Alliance has in no sense any obligation to kill another Alliance or Horde guild to a point where a GM has to even think about interfering.
Similarly, Alliance has in no sense any obligation to help another Alliance guild. Let's say you are a tank from guild A and guild B needs only a tank to start their ZG, and you decide to not join. You are basically slowing down Alliance overall raid progress by not joining and should be publicly stoned for such a horrid crime? As long as you are not abusing some kind of game mechanic where you manage to kill people of your own faction or whatnot, you have in no sense any more obligation to help Vanguard or Coral kill a world boss. Needing to have a GM explain this basic human freedom to you, is in itself borderline worrisome.
That brings me to the last point of numbers imbalance. In general Alliance has more people, more summoning alts, more scout alts, more big, organized guilds, always more people in Azshara, in almost any criteria that relates to world bosses they have a numbers advantage. I don't have any statistics in front of me, so I'm going to grab a number out of the air, but Coral or Vangaurd probably manage to kill 9 out of 10 Azuregos'. Having people cry salty waterfalls worth of posts doesn't really help beat the stereotype of a raging neck-beard.
Please calm down, no-one broke any rules, no GM has to apologise for anything, no guild owes any allegiance to any other guild and missing out 1 Azuregos kill might actually help the server. Maybe you haven't noticed since you were too busy obsessing over summoning alts and parking back-up tanks behind trees, but the Alliance:Horde ratio is shifting day by day and the amount of Horde guilds not being able to raid BWL is also increasing.
All this crying and raging isn't good for anyone's blood pressure, nor the server stability as a whole.
I was surprised to even see a GM reply here, almost apologetic in nature.
The server and it's GM's create a world with boundaries for players to play in. Just as much cross-faction killing is possible, it's also possible to not kill cross-faction. If I walk to UBRS and see some lowbie question in Searing Gorge, by the multiple times above mentioned logic, I would *have* to kill him because he is not of my faction. Now we can stretch this out to a hyperbole and say: just like I don't have to gank this poor alliance guy trying to level, Horde nor Alliance has in no sense any obligation to kill another Alliance or Horde guild to a point where a GM has to even think about interfering.
Similarly, Alliance has in no sense any obligation to help another Alliance guild. Let's say you are a tank from guild A and guild B needs only a tank to start their ZG, and you decide to not join. You are basically slowing down Alliance overall raid progress by not joining and should be publicly stoned for such a horrid crime? As long as you are not abusing some kind of game mechanic where you manage to kill people of your own faction or whatnot, you have in no sense any more obligation to help Vanguard or Coral kill a world boss. Needing to have a GM explain this basic human freedom to you, is in itself borderline worrisome.
That brings me to the last point of numbers imbalance. In general Alliance has more people, more summoning alts, more scout alts, more big, organized guilds, always more people in Azshara, in almost any criteria that relates to world bosses they have a numbers advantage. I don't have any statistics in front of me, so I'm going to grab a number out of the air, but Coral or Vangaurd probably manage to kill 9 out of 10 Azuregos'. Having people cry salty waterfalls worth of posts doesn't really help beat the stereotype of a raging neck-beard.
Please calm down, no-one broke any rules, no GM has to apologise for anything, no guild owes any allegiance to any other guild and missing out 1 Azuregos kill might actually help the server. Maybe you haven't noticed since you were too busy obsessing over summoning alts and parking back-up tanks behind trees, but the Alliance:Horde ratio is shifting day by day and the amount of Horde guilds not being able to raid BWL is also increasing.
All this crying and raging isn't good for anyone's blood pressure, nor the server stability as a whole.
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Asmodeus
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- Oct 11, 2014
Why should we be forced to help you get kills when we can just as easily do it on our own, I really don't understand. Are you trying to say that if we don't help you this will happen again? Honestly it sounds like a threat. When it's necessary for alliance guilds to ally,we ally. It has happened in the past on Azuregos before Risen even existed.
At the same time if alliance guilds don't need to ally, we don't ally. There was no greed, no arrogance, nothing like that. We simply did not need to ally with you. Vanguard and CORAL have set loot rules laid out and an official way of doing things. There was no reason to deviate from our alliance, none. We had a very good shot last night to kill it, so did Onslaught. You essentially manipulated game mechanics to interrupt a perfectly normal and healthy back and forth between horde and alliance during a world boss event.
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By even saying this is an acknowledgement that the conduct of Risen was shady and needs to be addressed. Thank you.
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OnslaughtFei
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- Apr 28, 2015
I want to point out something that has yet to be mentioned at all.
We had an 11% wipe. Our own factioned griefed us. Aranae (not in our raid) taunted multiple times during an Azuregos breath onto our raid costing us lost DPS players. Enmoa (not in our raid) also blasted azuregos at ranged and kited him arond away from us messing up our tanks, healers and dps causing deaths. These are just a few examples of horde also same faction griefing.
Without these actions that 11% wipe wouldve been a kill.
We had an 11% wipe. Our own factioned griefed us. Aranae (not in our raid) taunted multiple times during an Azuregos breath onto our raid costing us lost DPS players. Enmoa (not in our raid) also blasted azuregos at ranged and kited him arond away from us messing up our tanks, healers and dps causing deaths. These are just a few examples of horde also same faction griefing.
Without these actions that 11% wipe wouldve been a kill.
bl4ckc0d3r
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- May 22, 2015
I love how when people have no arguments they just try to ridicule the person and call it whining/raging.
You obviously didn't read or maybe don't understand what we are saying. No, we do not mind Risen not wiping Onslaught with us. That's okay, we didn't even need them to wipe Onslaught. We do, however, mind them finishing the boss off for Onslaught when enraged Azuregos was killing the 4-6 survivors after we wiped them (which we didn't chase because it's better for us when world boss kills them due to durability loss and mark of frost). What they did was to actively interfere with legit Alliance vs Horde action - not by not helping us, but by doing the work for the horde.
Anyway, thank you Davros for considering the issue and giving it importance it deserves. That's all that matters here.
Asmodeus
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- Oct 11, 2014
It probably would have, I know you guys had two really close attempts. Sorry to hear about the griefing, I was not aware.
Peasemold
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- Apr 12, 2015
Get rid of level 1 characters in zones they do not belong in. Permaban the accounts associated with those characters.
I'm not sure how you can say an alliance guild deciding to fuck over another alliance guild should be an offence worth banning over.
I'm pretty sure Brochette just likes to fuck with everybody. Should I call for Timecop to get banned for trying to leash Azuregos on our attempts? Don't tell me it was an "accident".?
You guys only ever come out in force like this when you don't get your way. If you didn't behave in such a pompous manner perhaps no one would give a shit.
We've been killing Azuregos for weeks uncontested and now we lost it because multiple guilds decided to deny us. Ban them all!
Move on, lick wounds, kill it next week.
I'm not sure how you can say an alliance guild deciding to fuck over another alliance guild should be an offence worth banning over.
I'm pretty sure Brochette just likes to fuck with everybody. Should I call for Timecop to get banned for trying to leash Azuregos on our attempts? Don't tell me it was an "accident".?
You guys only ever come out in force like this when you don't get your way. If you didn't behave in such a pompous manner perhaps no one would give a shit.
We've been killing Azuregos for weeks uncontested and now we lost it because multiple guilds decided to deny us. Ban them all!
Move on, lick wounds, kill it next week.
bl4ckc0d3r
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- May 22, 2015
Did you just complain about an Alliance hunter (100% killable by you) interfering with Horde kill attempt?:biggrin:
We will continue to make agreements which benefit our guild and enable us to kill World Bosses. If this is at your detriment due to your belief that cooperating is not to your benefit, so be it. We will of course continue to act within the rules, as we always have.
If their promise to discuss it means they are acknowledging we are shady, then their choice to discuss your Chromaggus strategy, and their choice to discuss and fix your level 20 summoning alts means you are definitely shady.
Peasemold
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- Apr 12, 2015
Stop with your faux sympathy. No one buys into it.
Maybe we should take a leaf from your book and demand bans and rule changes whenever we get griefed. It's real pathetic. Arcane pants are bis for everyone I know but please try and have some dignity.
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I thought we were just whining about everything? I'm new to being a little bitch so give me some pointers.
bl4ckc0d3r
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- May 22, 2015
Read again, Peasemold.
I don't see how any of this is a problem. Inner faction rumblings and chaos? getting in bed with the enemy? Multiple end game guildes hating each other? Sounds like a fun highly active server at 'war' with one another. Of course those on the losing end will be saltier, but they'll get the upper hand next time soon enough. I don't see how 5 hours of world pvp is a bad thing in anyway. I'd rather see GM and Devs focused on crap like afk levelign and horseshit like that.
BerniSunders
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- Jan 18, 2016
Davros if it comes out of that meeting that players will be banned for finishing off horde tags, I will respect that decision.
But I will add my 2 cents here. This type of action would discourage smaller raid guilds from having any recourse or options when it comes to World Bosses. Basically things would continue as business as usual and the largest guild on the server would monopolize the bosses. If this what Krono's wants it would not be a true blizz like experience and would discourage many players on this server.
I like to believe that the GM's do not want to encourage 1 super guild to basically own all world bosses. After all this is why the changes were made to warlocks. Because things were just getting out of control with the 'ultra guilds' racing to tag bosses as quickly as possible and having warlocks in virtually everyone zone to summon raid groups.
If Risen had the larger raid group would it be any more fair for us to monopolize all world bosses and have GM's ban players that interfered? Competition for world bosses is healthy for the server and healthy for server population. Nobody in risen is asking any GM to force Coral/Vangaurd to share world bosses with us, whereas Coral is asking GM's to ban us for simply using the only recourse we have for them not wanting to /roll for rights to the boss.
Helping horde kill/finish off world bosses was a common thing in retail. And I hope it continues on Kronos. I love playing here, have donated multiple times to the server and will continue to do so. But I would ask only that GM's consider all options before banning players for doing something that is in essence not an abuse of game mechanics in any way shape or form.
krutopatkin
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- Jan 8, 2013
This is why super serious guilds like <Arcanum> don't bother with casual stuff like world bosses.
^ sums up the thread perfectly.
If you think that PVP realm means that 2 factions MUST fight each other on sight - you'd better go back to some RP realms. What stops people from bribing other guild to fuck you up at world boss? What stops people from teaming up against the guild which pissed off both alliance and horde? This is online game after all, why not take advantages out of it. Yet you act like you want world bosses to be as close as possible to instance ones. If you desire to live inside a box - go to retail, where players are sitting in glass jars(garrisons or w/e). You can't eliminate World PvP from the game. And it CAN happen that your same faction is helping opposite faction just because 1) they can't take the boss down on their own OR 2) they just want to fuck you up. Maybe even both, who knows.
You all disgust me. I can only imagine how much crying there's gonna be on 4 dragons release.
Peasemold
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- Apr 12, 2015
I've done this rodeo with you enough times to know you will only reply to arguments you can give excuses for and ignore anything else. Why waste my time?
I just am really fucking amazed it is literally the same two guilds who complain and bitch about ANYTHING that happens to them they don't think is fair. Everyone else gets on with it or deals with it privately.
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You miss out on making the most hardcore guild on the server have a tantrum, though.
bl4ckc0d3r
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- May 22, 2015
Everyone please take a moment of silence for the decency that seems to be dying here.
To address your other points in the post - CORAL and Vanguard are not one super guild, they are two guilds working together. What you call business as usual we call dedication. You think it's easy for people to stay up all night fighting for their two guilds?
You say that forbidding smaller alliance raid guilds from giving kills to Horde (or vice-versa) would discourage them from trying to get world bosses? Has anyone on this server ever heard of fair game where everyone just tries their best and the most lucky/dedicated party wins?
You people complain about summon alts saying it's unfair and CORAL+Vanguard-only thing? That does not compute. How is using a widely-accessible thing to speed up our travel (that other guilds can use too) unfair? Anyway, for ranting about this particular topic please use other thread.
If Risen had the larger raid group CORAL and Vanguard would do everything within their power that has any decency in it (definitely not kiling bosses together with horde) to compete if possible. But we wouldn't stoop as low as you guys did. We would simply try harder and harder until it works.
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Asmodeus
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- Oct 11, 2014
There is no next time for anyone on the server but Risen and Onslaught if this conduct continues, as it's been hinted at. There is nothing any alliance guild or horde guild could do, other than other alliance raids teaming up with other horde raids.
Peasemold
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- Apr 12, 2015
That really doesn't seem in your wheelhouse. Why let someone else get the precious loot? You are the most hardcore and deserving. Grief them but claim it was an accident.
Not true. Smaller guilds can always band together to get kills. We dont want Risen not to get kills, we dont want all the kills to go to us. We only want to ban same faction griefing.
Yes! Yes it would! Whoever has the largest force or the best strategy should win. When you're able to assemble a team capable of wiping the horde and killing Azu please do go for kills! Whoever plays for the best within the defined ruleset should get the kill. Every time.
You have plenty of other options. You could
- Get there faster and kill him before horde notices.
- Get more people and outnumber the horde
- Ally with more guilds to achieve the former
- Use more consumables to defeat the horde
- Use better tactics to defeat the horde
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Asmodeus
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- Oct 11, 2014
Proof that you buy into misinformation. We don't do the cheese Chrom strat, ask anyone.